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Post by sharkskin on Jul 21, 2011 5:32:12 GMT -8
Hello everybody!
I'm new in this community, but like many of you, I've been reading and watching this forums for years, almost like my favorite tv show (I even have my favorite "characters" like Searat, Duckbill, Luis and many othes!!) but finally, I dared to join officially.
I need some recommendations regarding vintage fins. I'm putting together my very first vintage scuba gear and I feel that I have some pretty good stuff in terms of regulator (royal mistral, mint mint condition, purchased in Italy) a Fenzy vest, also in mint condition that I bought in England, and so on. However, I'm having problems choosing the right fins. I bougth years ago a blue pair of rubber fins, that looked great, brand new, and at least with the vintage design, but when I tried them, they almost bent in half, Could not move me at all. Way too flexible. Now... That been said, I'm 6'2" and weight 185lbs.... So my question is: which fins do you guys recommend me to buy. I mostly dive in the caribbean (USVI, PR, BVI), so it could be full foot, open heel as water temperature is not an issue. I saw that the UDT duck feet came out again... Can I get a good thrust with those? Are they painful to kick with?
Thank you very much in advance for your help guys! Really really looking to see what your thought are!!
Best,
sharkskin.
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Post by scubadiverbob on Jul 21, 2011 7:48:03 GMT -8
The best fin I've ever used has to be ScubaPro Jet Fins, with the USD version in a very close second place. They came out in the 70's, I think (when I first used them); so, some may not think of them of vintage. I was in a NASDS class, at a (you guessed it) ScubaPro store, and they had me do a swim test with my fins and then the ScubaPro fins. It was pretty simple. Using the same amount of force, count the kicks to get across the pool. I bought my second pair of fins! It took only half as many kicks with the jet fins. As far as UDT duck feet, I've never used them. They were made for the Navy, and I think used extensively in open water rescues, of downed pilots. So, they have to be good fins; John can probably tell you more.
Same yesterday as today .... what to stay away from is junk sold by department stores and what to buy .... fins sold by dive stores. (well, I should say "some" dive stores; I went in one dive store one time and they sold same stuff as walmart ....)
From your hieght and weight, I really think you'd be happy with Jet fins. Make sure to get a set that fits you and try them on with your booties ... wrong size may cause foot cramps and leg cramps or be painful to swim with !!! (buy from a dive store if you have questions on size to get)
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Post by JES on Jul 21, 2011 9:21:04 GMT -8
Welcome aboard sharkskin! We're glad that you've decided to join our ranks. Like Robert, I also prefer and dive with the Scuba Pro Jet Fins. However, I would recommend that you stay away from the USD Rocket Fins. Regretfully, they aren't even in the same league as the Jet Fins. Several other choices would be the Voit UDT Duckfeet (like Dan has for sale on this site), the various Voit Viking full foot fins, or even the older Churchill fins. Hope this is of some help and again Welcome!  |
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Post by sharkskin on Jul 21, 2011 11:44:41 GMT -8
Guys! Thanks so much!!!! Really helpful. Actually, I do have the scubapro jetfins... Never tried in the ocean yet, but in my pool surely look very promising. I might also try the UDT then... As it's simpler to use, and requires no booties.
If our friend ( and personal hero!!) Searat is around, would be really intersting to hear from him in terms of military fins, speciallly the ones that he used in his unit while in service.
Again everybody... Thank you very much for your help!
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Post by scubadiverbob on Jul 21, 2011 11:57:38 GMT -8
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Post by SeaRat on Jul 21, 2011 12:25:56 GMT -8
Hello everybody! I'm new in this community, but like many of you, I've been reading and watching this forums for years, almost like my favorite tv show (I even have my favorite "characters" like Searat, Duckbill, Luis and many othes!!) but finally, I dared to join officially. I need some recommendations regarding vintage fins. I'm putting together my very first vintage scuba gear and I feel that I have some pretty good stuff in terms of regulator (royal mistral, mint mint condition, purchased in Italy) a Fenzy vest, also in mint condition that I bought in England, and so on. However, I'm having problems choosing the right fins. I bougth years ago a blue pair of rubber fins, that looked great, brand new, and at least with the vintage design, but when I tried them, they almost bent in half, Could not move me at all. Way too flexible. Now... That been said, I'm 6'2" and weight 185lbs.... So my question is: which fins do you guys recommend me to buy. I mostly dive in the caribbean (USVI, PR, BVI), so it could be full foot, open heel as water temperature is not an issue. I saw that the UDT duck feet came out again... Can I get a good thrust with those? Are they painful to kick with? Thank you very much in advance for your help guys! Really really looking to see what your thought are!! Best, sharkskin. Sharkskin, Fins are an interesting subject, as I have been experimenting with different designs since the late 1960s. But you asked specific questions about the fins above, and specifically the UDT Duck Feet fins. I have used these, and have currently two pair in my collection. They are a good fin, with quite a lot of power. They were used as competitive spearfishing fins in the 1950s through the 1960s. There were two different types, the Swimaster UDT Duck Feet, and the AMF Voit UDT Duck Feet. When Voit bought Swimaster, the folks at Swimaster were more than a bit upset. From the stories I have been told, they destroyed the UDT Duck Feet dyes that were used in the production of these fins. AMF Voit then had to make their own, newer style dye. In doing so, they changed the top of the foot pocket to make it more "comfortable" by using a rounded, more foot-shaped contour rather than the straight-across top that the original Duck Feet had. But what AMF Voit did not apparently know is that many of us who wore the original Duck Feet (made completely of natural gum rubber, by the way) wore them upside down. This allowed that top area to go higher toward our heel, and made for more comfortable long-distance swimming. The AMF Voit Duck Feet do well, and are very powerful, but don't allow this adaptation of being able to wear them upside down. Depending upon their age and rubber composition, they may be too stiff now too, as the original ones were not that stiff. A competitor was the US Divers "Professional" fin, which I have recently re-discovered. Sometimes, it was too stiff a fin, and I remember some underwater swims where I cramped because of their stiffness. But the ones which are not that stiff are actually very good fins too. So my advise is to get a pair of the current UDT Duck Feet, and wear a neoprene sock with them (they need something or they will rub you raw). We had thin "booties" that were made by Swimaster for a time to use in the U.S. Navy School for Underwater Swimmers. John |
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Post by sharkskin on Jul 21, 2011 15:18:29 GMT -8
HellO John! Nice meeting you!! And thanks for your response. Very interesting the story of Voit v. Swimaster... I"ll deffinitively make up my mind and, as you said, get the new UDT fins... Thank you also, scubadiverbob! As you indicated, the scubapro jetfins are an absolute classic. So, hopefully, and this is what i'm planing to do... I"ll assemble 3 aqualungs sets... 1960's, a 1970's and a 1980's (early)... Every era has its own spirit... Mask will always be a problem for me, as i'm as blind a worm without my glasses... So unfortuntely I"ll have to stick to my tusa liberator... Otherwise, Would be lovely to get an "aquamara" with a big window... As it could very well represent both, late 60's and the 70's. Btw John, and just for identification purposes... Are these the iconic Swimaster you told me about?: www.hds.org/auctionfiles/ScubaPictures/5SnorkelsMasksFins/snorkelsmasksfins.htmlAgain guys, thank you! |
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Post by sharkskin on Jul 21, 2011 15:21:33 GMT -8
Welcome aboard sharkskin! We're glad that you've decided to join our ranks. Like Robert, I also prefer and dive with the Scuba Pro Jet Fins. However, I would recommend that you stay away from the USD Rocket Fins. Regretfully, they aren't even in the same league as the Jet Fins. Several other choices would be the Voit UDT Duckfeet (like Dan has for sale on this site), the various Voit Viking full foot fins, or even the older Churchill fins. Hope this is of some help and again Welcome! Thanks for your help JES! Here I'm feeling like home already! |
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Post by SeaRat on Jul 21, 2011 18:01:32 GMT -8
Here are some photos of the older style Duck Feet in action:  USAF Photo by John C. Ratliff These are the AMF Voit style, in use in a U.S. Navy School for Underwater Swimmers deep dive.  USAF Photo by John C. Ratliff Here we see the booties that we used with the Duck Feet  US Navy Photo There are the original Duck Feet, which are very close to the AMF Voit versions  This is one of the pages from a 1970s AMF Voit catalog, which shows a shorter version for body surfing. I just looked at Dan's "Gear for Sale" area, under "Masks and Fins," and Dan has both types available. www.vintagescubasupply.com/maskfin.htmlHe has the original gum rubber "Spearfisherman" Duck Feet, which is what I was referring to. You can see the difference between that and the more recent ones, which are right above it. The more recent (based upon the AMF Voit Duck Feet) are new fins, however, while the original Duck Feet are very old. The old ones do tend to hold up well if well cared for, so either (or both if you want to see the differences) would be great for your applications. Concerning the Jet Fins, there were several versions of these too. I first saw them in the JY Cousteau film, World Without Sun[/B] in 11963, I think. They were not yet available in the USA. I wanted them badly after that, but kept with my Duck Feet until I could get them through the USAF. When I did, I got a pair of extra large Lightning Jet Fins, which I recommend to anyone interested in Jet Fins. They have a softer rubber compound than the originals, are longer (and I think a bit wider too). The Jet Fin was the first fin design to have the bottom support all the way to the heel. They were therefore very comfortable. John |
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Post by sharkskin on Jul 21, 2011 20:22:49 GMT -8
Thanks John! Awesome pictures from the good old years. It makes me think of another passion I have for old U.S. air force imagery and subjects ( from The silver finishing of the classic jet fighters like the F-104 Starfighter to the Sabre, f-4 Phantoms, sub-sonic fighters, Old forgotten air bases runways and so on.... And, I know, again, a totally different subject!).
In that 3rd picture I can really see how those fins delivered. A fully dressed double tank diver moving nicely.
I read in an old scuba discussion, (around 2006) about your plans to publish a book with your experiences.... Is that still in progress?? I'm sure that you won't have any problems finding readers... Starting with all of us here! I also collect vintage diving books, but sometimes I have a hard time finding books with a good balance of chronicles and storytelling vs. The Technical and phisical aspects of the diving discipline in those years.
Just when you publish it, try printed.... no kindle or nook please!! New media pages does not get yellow and noble over the years.
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Post by puff on Jul 22, 2011 4:07:24 GMT -8
Hi Sharkskin, I've two pair of AMF VOIT Duck Feet but never test them in the water. I hope to try these soon. The rubber despite the age is still in good condition but not sure if they are enough flexible to support a test today. The new reproductions are similar to the VOIT model so it's probably better for you to buy these ones than a era pair. About the USD Rocket fins, I've buy one pair past month and I've try these firstly in my booties and it hurt my feet widthwise (I've a large foot). I test again with small neoprene socks and they became very comfortable. I continue to use it for each dive. But they are small! I've the "Fit all size" version and I don't know if there is different length for these fins. I'm 5"41 and don't need long fins. Not sure it was good for you unless these fins exist in different sizes. I'm sure someone could give us the info, don't you John?  |
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Post by SeaRat on Jul 22, 2011 18:50:56 GMT -8
Here's another Navy photo of the original Duck Feet fins.  Sharkskin, you asked about my book. Well, it's still there, and I've talked with one of my sons about finishing it. I should spend more time on it rather than forums I have a full chapter about our training at the U.S. Navy School for Underwater Swimmers in Key West, Florida. There is a lot of attention now on Discovery Channel about the training in these schools, but they fail to see that there is both inter-service rivalries and pushback by the trainees (it wasn't all take and no give). Here's one example: I wrote the following letter, which is currently in the book where i mentioned my Duck Feet fins. Concerning the Rocket Fins, I have a pair, and they are a fair fin, but not great. I actually prefer the Duck Feet to these Rocket Fins, as they give me better propulsion. The Rocket Fin is about the same size as the original Jet Fin for the USA. But the first Jet Fin, produced in France by Beuchat, and some were full-foot fins. Those seemed to be longer.  John |
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Post by DavidRitchieWilson on Jul 23, 2011 3:34:25 GMT -8
I'm a lifelong vintage snorkeller, located in the UK, so I hesitate to make recommendations for scuba use and from an American heritage, but I can't resist responding to a posting about basic gear. Here in Europe the fins of choice before 1975 were full-foots and they commanded a higher price than open-heels back then. Perhaps the most popular full-foots back then, for both scuba divers and snorkellers, were all-rubber Cressi Rondines, originally designed by the great Luigi Ferraro:   He is shown above sporting one of his other inventions, the Cressi Pinocchio mask. The website dedicated to Ferraro is worth exploring: www.luigiferraro.it/Cressi has chosen to maintain production of its cult Pinocchio mask but not its all-rubber Cressi Rondines as the Genoa-based company has jumped on to the petrochemical industry bandwagon like every other European diving equipment manufacturer. If you're interested in good-quality classic all-rubber full-foot fins, you might consider "looking east" to Japan, where they are still manufactured by Gull Marine Sports in different solid colours and stiffnesses: Supermew  Barracuda  |
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Post by scubadiverbob on Jul 23, 2011 6:30:14 GMT -8
.... and if your looking for a really good mask .... the Pinocchio mask is probably one of the best. Advantages to it over most modern mask are: it's very low volume making it easy to clear and very comfortable to wear. So, if you want my suggestion for a mask ... that's it. Even though some mask come with purge valves, just like snorkels, I sort of don't like them. They get sand in them .... I have a dry snorkel I found at Monterey, CA; but, would trade it for a ScubaPro Shotgun (large bore) snorkel .... that's also personal preference. I used to have, or should I say, started out with a shotgun snorkel. It died along time ago ... still have fond memories of it. ScubaPro no longer sells them (big mistake!).
Think about what I said "personal preference". Some dive stores will let you try before you buy. Hope you find what you like, and are comfortable diving with.
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Post by scubadiverbob on Jul 23, 2011 6:53:21 GMT -8
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