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Post by nemrod on Jan 22, 2008 18:40:56 GMT -8
Well, I knew you was just funning to get a fuss out of me my photog extra-ordinary friend but nonetheless you is wrong. Hummmph.
Being only a sad shadow of my former and once self there is one thing none have ever accused me of even now and that is of being slow (in the water--out of the water I might be slow in the head--!). Now, poor Joe is not slow either by any stretch but I think that first time he dived with me for real and I deided to get away from the silt kickers his eyes were about to bug out cuz I was moving out of there with some determination---lol. He asked me if we were going ot be going that fast all of the time, I said, no, not all the time. Poor Joe.
I tell y'all something else, talk about someone who can fool you, it is Broxton chuck, Don't let that gimp he has fool you, in the water he can move out and that despite being saddled with those horrid Rockets he dug out of a dumpster.
JetFins are not stiff, Rocket fins are stiff but not JetFins. The Jet XL (SuperJet) is quite flexible in my opinion and easy to kick. Besides all that, JetFins are among the fastest of fins which has been shown in so called fin tests to be so.
Nah, y'all keep those toy plastic fins, give me my Jets, the fin I love to hate and hate to love.
Viva la Jets, Nem
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Post by DavidRitchieWilson on Jan 22, 2008 21:59:12 GMT -8
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mudhog
Regular Diver
Posts: 18
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Post by mudhog on Jan 23, 2008 6:43:39 GMT -8
Maybe I'm missing something but those Techs look like they came out of a JetFin mould. More pics would be a big help.
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dhaas
Regular Diver
Posts: 26
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Post by dhaas on Jan 23, 2008 10:26:21 GMT -8
Nemrod, I will eat a BIT of my words as the Super Jetfins I've seen and held SEEM to be a bit softer. My one almost 40 year dive buddy also had a pair of White Stag SuperStag fins that were huge but soft enough to not feel like a 2 X 6 on your foot. Which I think you (Nemrod) could probably dive with being the aging athlete I know you are The truth is people think stiffer fins are better, but they're NOT. FINS have no power. That comes from the USER. Even according to US Navy tests for efficiency a bit softer fin can be kicked LONGER and FARTHER than a stiff one. It takes so long to be approved as military item that a approved design somehow achieves "cult" status even if there are better mousetraps built. What cracks me up is Vintage divers (I'm one, almost 39 years diving his year!) who keep referring to old crappola' from 1965 ads, or the military blessing of a product for those young fit swimmers, yet we all look more like Fred Flintstone these days ! LOL..... Finally, there is a medium pair of blue Scubapro Jetfins on Ebay right now since this is how this thread started. They look kinda' beat up, but if you want 'em they're out there! Good diving! dhaas
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YankDownUnder
Pro Diver
Broxton 'green label' Aqua Lung and 1954 USD Rene triple 44s.
Posts: 162
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Post by YankDownUnder on Jan 23, 2008 11:11:14 GMT -8
dhaas,
I hope you are right about softer being better. I just bought a pair of vintage green Owen Chruchills and almost shocked at how soft they are. Cressi Rondines were my first fin and mine are like boards. When I need a burst of thrust, such as reaching the moving ladder, while getting onto a dive charter boat (they don't anchor here) the stiff fins help. However, my aging legs complain during any prolonged diving with them.
The old UDT type fins were worse yet. I love their look, but I tend to eventually give them away. Not only are they stiff, but long. All that leverage against my legs and I understand why my steel 72 seems heavier than it did in 1962. In the film "Creature from the Black Lagoon", the stunt doubles blast through the clear spring water using what appars to be small soft fins, similar to the Voit duck feet. I am surprized at the pictures contributed on this site, that have such great SCUBA, but often not other vintage gear, such as fins. Anyway, these Churchills are soon to be my standard fin. They should look good with my Heinke Hans Hass mask.
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dhaas
Regular Diver
Posts: 26
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Post by dhaas on Jan 23, 2008 11:35:10 GMT -8
YankDownUnder, You have described exactly what I found out years ago. Yes, when I was young and ran my one Marathon in 3:27:41 (That's UNDER 7.5 minute miles for 26.2 miles, you wannabees!) I wanted the stiffest fin I could buy.....Thought it was part of my persona, ego, etc. I currently DO use a Scubapro fin. The FULL FOOT model of BLACK (slightly stiffer) Scubapro Twin Jet. Three years ago I was off Townesville all the way out in the Coral Sea. Diving with a pair of twentysomething "tech" divers' sporting the typical heel strap Jetfin. They couldn't even get back to the anchor line despite all their "technical technique" frog kicking, etc.! I hugged the bottom, kisking my FULL FOOT softer Twinjets and waved as I made my way back to the boat What a bunch of crappola'...... Tried to educate them about efficiency, etc. Waste of my breath...... Don't know about you, but I don't need diving to be MORE of a workout these days.....In the Creature movies I thought they mostly had old soft FULL FOOT type of fins ( ?) Now I'll have to rent it and watch it again! As my best friend says "I'm diving my way. You dive whatever way is most comfortable for you!" So enjoy your soft fins..... Being right or wrong has very little to do with it dhaas
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Post by nemrod on Jan 23, 2008 19:26:06 GMT -8
Don't start dissing the UDT Super frog Feet. I don't find them hard to kick at all. I don't find them to long either because they seem to have no more length than Super Jets and are somewhat more narrow and a bit stiffer. They are quite fun to dive and powerful and certainly vintage. Dave, those twenty somethings and their frog kicking---there is their problem right there--not the Jet Fins. I don't care what they say, a strong traditional flutter kick will cover more ground than the frog kick. Tech divers these days are all wound up about frog kicks, bah humbug. I have used those TwinJets and I am less than impressed with them, to slow for me and no power. Y'all may not agree but as far as I am concerned, JetFins are vintage. Nem
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Post by duckbill on Jan 23, 2008 22:09:44 GMT -8
Hear, hear!
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Dale
Pro Diver
Posts: 141
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Post by Dale on Jan 24, 2008 2:33:14 GMT -8
Nice pics, Nemrod. Of all the different fins I've used, I still think the SP Jets are my favorites. For sure they take more leg to kick than split-fins, but my vintage kick style doesn't work with splits. Those things feel like wrags on my feet. The Jets are probably the most copied fin out there. OMS makes a version of them too. I just bought a pair of Farrallon fins I'm itching to try out.
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Post by SeaRat on Jan 24, 2008 6:44:07 GMT -8
Dale,
Did you get the Farrallon fins with the leg supports off ebay? I was really looking at those, and had a pair in the 1980s. If you got them, write up a little speel and tell us what you think.
I had just bought a pair of USD Spoiler fins (at the 8:00 position in the article on Ben Franklins swimming sandels that Nemrod posted above). They are in like-new condition, but they are stiff as a board. I'm not sure what they will be like in the water, and I may try to limber them up with ArmourAll. They've also got a smaller footpocket, which I'll probably use with only socks in a pool. They are also a relatively short fin compared to my Scubapro Lightning Jet Fins.
Concerning the Jet Fins, Cousteau used them as part of his diver's "uniform" in the picture "Word Without Sun" in 1963. Everyone used them except Cousteau himself, who stayed with the Cressi full-foot fin (he also wore the classic triples, with a first-model Calypso regulator), rather than the quads that everyone else was wearing. I guess that way everyone knew when Cousteau was in the water. So I would agree with Nemrod that Scubapro Jet Fins are vintage. I believe that Scubapro was none too pleased that Cousteau used these fins too, without talking to them first.
John
John
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JohnA
Pro Diver
Posts: 134
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Post by JohnA on Jan 24, 2008 7:02:43 GMT -8
I picked up a couple of sets of Farallon fins with the spring straps (not the leg braces), one set was in bad shape but the springs were good (why I wanted them) so I converted my SP jets to spring straps to use for tech diving. For recreational diving I normally wear Sporasub HD’s. On other bit of info, since ’75 I have used Sportsways 707 (stiff!!), White Stag Hydrostreams, Cressi Sub Garas plus the others listed.
Now for the story, I did a head to head comparison of the Farallons and SP Jets (mediums), both with the spring straps, recreational rig (back plate/wing single 80). First dive was with the Jets, no issue, worked like Jets should and really liked the spring straps. Next dive, same conditions, Farallons, OMG! My feet started to immediately cramp, foot pocket was too deep and no flex, the blades had virtually no flex either and extremely heavy on the feet. I have strong legs and they just totally sucked, felt like you had bricks tied to your feet!
Since they are the same fin just without the leg brace would love to know how the leg brace works.
John
BTW, I also see lots of new tech dives using the frog kick in open water, cant figure out why? It’s a great kick for caves and inside wrecks to keep the silt down but not very efficient for open water IMHO.
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dhaas
Regular Diver
Posts: 26
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Post by dhaas on Jan 24, 2008 7:21:35 GMT -8
Nemrod, Man I thought I had a fin fetish Seriously, like you I have tried (and own) lots of fins.....I hear you on the stiffness and how the Jetfin has been copied. Didn't you see the Beuchat Jetfins Ryan had at SD IV? That's i believe where that style really got the start. SO I'll be it was a Healthways to Scubapro Gustav de Valle stolen copying from Beuchat that was the real design. Or I could of course be wrong! Enjoy! dhaas
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Post by nemrod on Jan 24, 2008 7:33:03 GMT -8
A fin fetish . Please, no more fetishes after my recent experience with the wet-Suit Nazi fetish person. I agree the long "free dive" style fins with the closed heels are amazing fins and very powerful but they are not suited to most scuba diving so have claimed several generations of divers-especially in North America. The reason is due to their lack of mobilty and manuverability in close quarters. The thing that makes the JetFin stand like a giant among weenies is that it makes good power and speed and yet is manuverable and can perform any style of kick used in scuba. Those Planas in my pic are beginning to be to long, they clearly lack manuverability in comparison to the JetFin but I do believe they are just as powerfull and I enjoy using them in unconfined open water. Nem
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2008 9:12:05 GMT -8
Nem I agree, plana's are good open water fins......I have a set I have been using for close to 25 years now., when you need the speed they provide, just like jets, but they do wobble on hard strokes.......bought a new used set of the newer model with the two grooves, will try them out next month on vac.
I had a set of Jets in Okinawa I loved......a friend gave them to me when he rotated back, sure beat the heck outta my voit vikings. I gave thoses to my oldest son when he moved to Calif. where he lost them.......
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Dale
Pro Diver
Posts: 141
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Post by Dale on Jan 24, 2008 9:36:47 GMT -8
John, No I didn't get the Farrallons w/ the leg brace, got a nice pair w/ spring straps. I did see the pair your talking about, I too have always wondered how well they work. Farrallon was a very innovative company in their day! I'm gunna try out the Farrallons this weekend, but after trying them on, I can see already they aren't as comfortable as my Jets. I have a pair of Healthways Scubamaster fins that I always figured were a predecessor to the Jets as they look similar. Haven't used 'em, right now they are wall hangers. I also have a pair of AMF/Voit Mark X? (not sure if thats right, have to look later) that look pretty close to Jets. I think everybody copied the design, whoever originally designed it. Maybe someone like Doc Miller knows for sure? One of the reasons I like Jets so much is because they are the best frog-kicking fin, and flutter great when needed. I mainly frog-kick on scuba, don't really feel the need to go real fast. Flutter kicks will destroy the vis in my local lake, water stays nice & clear around me:)
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