hookah use

[jon]

When using a RAM with a hookah hose, what's the best protection for the 1st stage inlet? Thanks, Jon

[diverdown1955]

I HAVE READ WHERE SOME USE A HARD RUBBER PLUG , HOCKEY PUCK CUT DOWN TO CLEAR THE YOKE, THEN SCREWED DOWN FINGER TIGHT.

[octopus]

Looks like an old thread but thought I'd give a "plug" to Bryan over at VDH. He sells a chrome plug that screws into the first stage if anyone is interested:

vintagedoublehose.com/index.php?option=com_rokecwid&view=ecwid&Itemid=175#!/~/product/id=12160806

[SeaRat]

I hate to burst a bubble here, but if you think about it you probably don't need much of a plug. Your worst enemy is water getting into the first stage, so be sure that the O-ring is in the yolk plug. The first stage acts as a 110-135 psig overpressure relief valve, and only pressure over the interstage set pressure will enter the first stage if there is no tank attached, and hookah only is used.

I don't recall the U.S. Navy having much concern about a heavy plug for the yolk, but then I have never actually done any hookah diving.

Over and above that, I would recommend that a small bail-out bottle be used rather than a plug, as this will give you a backup in case of a kinked hose.

John

[octopus]

I think we may be talking about 2 different uses. The plug as I understand it is used to seal the first stage port while using the hooka port. There maybe t2 different applications for this plug:

1- using a back mounted tank with a singlehose reg type of first stage BUT using a doublehoser mounted on your chest as a second stage (Cousteau did this)

2- using a surface supplied air source such as a compressor or tank.

I believe that was the intention the guys at VDH had and thought I read somewhere Cousteau and his divers used this type of plug... could be wrong about that last bit however. This is a repro of an original USD part.

[SeaRat]

Jon and octopus,

I'm going to back away from my statements above, as the first stage is normally open from that large spring on the inside that we use to set the interstage pressure. Lockup occurs when the pressures equalize. So the entire chamber for the first stage would be subjected to the Hookah pressure. Therefore, you and VDH are correct that a fairly hefty yolk plug would be necessary. (I had to think through the valve to understand the potentials on a long hike at Mt. Hood with my wife today.)

The U.S. Navy never mentioned this hookah option as they would not use it, apparently. It is not in the U.S. Navy Diving Manual, March 1970. Instead, they talk about "Surface Supplied Diving," and most of that is hard hat diving. Scuba diving in this manual is called "Self-Contained Diving." Some of the DA Aquamaster regulators that they ordered, specifically the non-magnetic ones, had the no hookah port; that part was never machined to open.

Edwin Link used hookah diving, but with a DESCO mask and not a DA Aquamaster regulator in his archaeological work in the 1970s. This was written up in the National Geographic Magazine. There was another expedition which did use the DA Aquamaster for Hookah Diving, and I'll try to look it up for reference.

Concerning using the double hose regulator for a front-mount, that we Jacques Y Cousteau himself, in some of his last dives. But he used a La Spirotechnique Mistral for those dives, with the LP air piped directly to the chest-mounted Mistral. I think it was the only way he could dive, as he had advanced lung problems from smoking, from what I've heard. Toward the end of this clip by The Cousteau Society you can see JYC using the triple tank system with the front-mounted Mistral. By the way, the integrated scuba Cousteau developed and was filmed with his divers for more than a decade had a double hose Mistral inside the nice-looking casing.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wfRM9Kddco&list=PLD9ACBA3F1864574D

John

[octopus]

Fantastic history, thanks John. I was thinking of getting this plug a few weeks ago to test out my RAM mounted to my chest to see if the WOB was any better. I'm also a rebreather diver (dive a Mk15.5 and Mk25- LARV) so WOB is something I'm pretty familiar with. I may look into this further later this summer when I have a bit more free-time and if you are interested, I'd be happy to post my findings. Although, this maybe moot as I'm sure this issue has been hashed out by someone else to date...

[jon]

Hey Guys, I'm getting ready to use my RAM as a hookah regulator. For awhile now I've been having fun with a setup consisting of a tank in the boat/kayak,a Conshelf XIV with 150' of Brownie's hookah hose,and their harness for the 2nd stage. Very unencumbered and keeps me in contact with the boat. Important for an old timer who tends to wander! Having been weened on a double hose and reluctantly giving them up,I was reintroduced via this site about 8 years ago. I bought a nice RAM from Dan and found I definately prefer the bubbles behind. When I saw Dan offer the hookah port adapter a few years ago I bought one to use for an octo hookup trying not to be too out of date. As for hookah use I was wary about protecting the 1st stage port. I posted about it here and got some good feedback.
Recently,revisiting the thread, I came across Octopus's post about the available port plug and ordered one from Vintage Double Hose along with a repro USD hookah harness from Allen. Thus recreating the original USD "Hookah-Master"kit. Now I'm stoked! I also reread John's post and am still intrigued with his idea of attaching the RAM directly to a pony bottle as a backup/bailout setup. With the pony valve closed could there be water intrusion into the reg.? Valve open would negate the hookah supply? What say the brain trust?
Jon

[SeaRat]

Jon, you have a few choices to make. If you are using a pony bottle, you don't need that fancy first stage plug. Simply hook up the regulator no the pony bottle, and use the hookah port for the line. The pony bottle will automatially be at the intermediate presure in the second stage, as the first stage is intact. But with the plug above, you have no convenient means of hooking up the pony bottle, as it will come in at high pressure. You could use a first stage on it and hook up to the LP port on that regulator, but that kinda bypasses the reason for the hookah port in the first place.

Concerning water intrusion, if you don't have a good o-ring seal on the valve, there could be some salt water intrusion with the valve turned off, but what I would do is put the regulator on the tank, open the tank to pressurize the HP chamber, then close it. When you use the LP air, the HP chamber should pressurize automatically, as that HP seat would act like an overpresure relief valve and allow some air into the HP side too. So I don't think there will be the potential for a salt water leak into the first stage.

One other thought is that Scott Aviation has a very convenient method of unhooking a hose so that the pony bottle can be used without the hose. They make that for their E-Z AirLine Respirator, and it has a quick disconnect shown. Perhaps you could get one from a safety supply house in your area that handles Scott equipment. That way, if your hose becomes hopelessly tangled, you could disconnect and come to the surface on your pony bottle.

John

[jon]

John, Great info,I especially like the logic of keeping the alternate air source independent. Thanks for a reminder that the protocals for hookah diving are no different.
Jon