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Post by surflung on Dec 4, 2014 6:42:38 GMT -8
Clean Up Results are Very Good...- I used 50/50 vinegar/water solution and watched it closely. Soak a little, brush a little with an old toothbrush. I learned on other projects not to soak too long because the solution leaches out the alloy in the brass and leaves copper. I accept that some of the staining won't come out and stop soaking before over-doing it. - You can see that the surfaces that will be visible when this reg is re-assembled are almost new looking. - Looking back over Greg Barlow's advice from my first 50 fathom project, he said to avoid taking the valve seat apart if possible... These are hard to get sealed and if it is already working, best to leave it that way. I did that with my first project and it has worked great for almost two years. The lever appears to be adjusted to the correct height as well, so I'll also leave that alone to start with. - The sintered metal filter still has some corrosion so I'll pull the snap ring and clean that area out. - The mouthpiece looks to be in very good shape but dirty. I've cleaned up black ones with Westley's Bleche White tire cleaner and will try that on this one, too.
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Post by nikeajax on Dec 4, 2014 9:00:28 GMT -8
Eben, I have found that if you use a brass brush, it scrapes some of the crud off and burnish it a bit, leaving some of the brass behind on the softer areas. Also, you can use aluminum foil on some of the areas that have the chrome missing, again, burnishing, but make sure you rub that area with silicone grease.
Lookin' good bruddah!
Jaybird
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Post by sitkadiver on Dec 4, 2014 10:02:07 GMT -8
Eben, that looks great.
My Blue 50 fathom does NOT have the second indexing hole. Does your Blue 50 have it? Must have been a fix on later regs then...?
I took the seat out of my Blue 50, and worried that I might be upsetting the Greg Barlow God's.... So far, it's working fine. (What can I say? Put a crescent wrench in my mitt and I lose my mind.) HA HA
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Post by nikeajax on Dec 4, 2014 11:50:28 GMT -8
If you're worried about the color change while cleaning, get yourself a two liter bottle of Coke: this is what they use to clean old lantern parts, and won't turn your bare spots pink (copper). Just soak your parts in it.
Jaybird
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Post by SeaRat on Dec 4, 2014 17:24:07 GMT -8
Dave,
I haven't taken mine apart, but because it is a high pressure spring, it probably will seat regardless unless we score the seat.
John
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Post by surflung on Dec 5, 2014 6:21:00 GMT -8
Mouthpiece Cleaned Up Nice...- I used Westley's Bleche White tire cleaner and a nylon toothbrush to clean up the original gray Voit mouthpiece. I'm surprised by how good it looks. Note that it doesn't have the "MADE NI USA" misprint molded under the logo. - You can't see it here but the wagon wheels were also removed and old mushroom valve residue cleaned off. I installed new mushroom valves in the wagon wheels and re-inserted them into the mouthpiece ends. - Getting close to re-assembly time! Reply to Sitka: I don't remember if my blue 50 Fathom had two positioning holes. I DO remember a good suggestion from Greg to orient the sintered filter C-Clip in the same direction as the big venturi port. That way you can see if the mechanism gets rotated out of the correct venturi position. Reply to Nikeajax: I messed up a couple of times in the past by being impatient and overly aggressive in my clean up efforts. So, I've backed off to a gentler approach with the idea that stuff that doesn't show, doesn't need to be perfect... Just sufficiently clean and in proper working condition. I appreciate your suggestions... Those are methods I have not tried yet.
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Post by surflung on Dec 8, 2014 7:26:01 GMT -8
- Over the weekend, I removed the snap ring and sintered filter and cleaned out that area... It needed it. 0000 fine steel wool soaked in 50/50 vinegar. It turned out nice and bright. The sintered filter cleaned up nice too. I replaced the snap ring with a new chrome one and re-assembled. As mentioned above I positioned the snap ring to reference the direction of the large venturi port.
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Post by surflung on Dec 10, 2014 9:44:28 GMT -8
Looks Like New Inside...- I positioned the large venturi port to point directly into the inhalation hose...- Tested for Leaks... NONE! I mounted the regulator body to a scuba tank with 2,000 psi, turned on the air and pushed the lever. A GUSH of air came out the inhalation horn. (BTW - NEVER try to inhale directly off the horn as this could lead to a lung injury from the venturi blast.) - To test for leakage, I turned the air off but left the regulator pressurized overnight. Next morning I pushed the lever and the pressurized air was still in there. So, no leakage was present. - I finished assembling the regulator with a new diaphragm, installed the hoses and mouthpiece assembly. Put it back on the tank and tried breathing. It worked great. I'll post some more pictures when I get a chance.
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Post by surflung on Dec 11, 2014 7:07:22 GMT -8
Ooh Baby... - This regulator turned out way better than expected... Mainly, it was in better original condition than I thought... Even when I was cleaning it. There ARE areas that are corroded or have chipped/worn off chrome. But those areas are covered up when it is assembled and the finished rebuild looks like a barely used, like new regulator... Hardly a visible scratch on the chrome. The back side looks just as good... I'll post more pictures later. - AND IT WORKS! Connected to a 2000 psi scuba tank this thing breathes smooth and easy. And Now for the Credits...- Thanks Greg Barlow, Allan Klauda, and others for sharing your knowledge on how to rebuild the downstream 50 Fathom VCR2. - New hoses, Voit hose clamps, wagon wheel valves, and authentic gray diaphragm were purchased from Rob at the Scuba Museum. - Original production duck bill valve and new production band clamp screw and nut were purchased from Dan at Vintage Scuba Supply. - New production can gasket was purchased from Bryan at Vintage Double Hose. - And finally, thanks to Fred Roberts Basic Scuba book for exploded diagrams, mechanism explanations, and factory service and trouble shooting information.
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Post by vance on Jun 17, 2019 13:21:14 GMT -8
I'm resurrecting this old thread because I am about to do a rebuild on another blue painted 50 Fathom downstream regulator. I volunteered to do it for a guy who has purchased a few regulators from me, since these are rare-ish regs that need to be put back into service. They are very pretty little things, too. I thought it would be fun to document the rebuild for him and others who may be interested.
I am in NY, on my way to Atlanta, so it won't be torn into for a week, but it's boring sitting around so this is something to do for a while.
A bit of background on these if you don't want to read back into the thread: The blue paint 50 and some others have a Mistral-looking HP valve and lever assembly. but differ because they are a downstream valve with no venturi tube. Tank pressure wants to open the valve on these, rather than close it like the Mistral. The valve is held closed by spring pressure. This was to "compensate", making it easier to breathe off a full tank and growing harder as the tank emptied; the opposite of the Mistral- type upstream valve which grew easier to breathe from as the tank emptied.
There is discussion here about turning the big hole toward the intake horn vs the factory's small hole or no hole setting. On mine, I turned the small hole toward the intake horn because I found the venturi effect too strong for my liking with the big hole pointed there. However, since my Titan II experiments, I've found that a few degrees of offset can be used to calibrate the venturi effect, and I might want to increase it a bit, or go back to the big hole and decrease it a bit.
I will post pics asap.
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Post by scubalawyer on Jun 17, 2019 19:03:11 GMT -8
I'm resurrecting this old thread because I am about to do a rebuild on another blue painted 50 Fathom downstream regulator. I volunteered to do it for a guy who has purchased a few regulators from me, since these are rare-ish regs that need to be put back into service. They are very pretty little things, too. I thought it would be fun to document the rebuild for him and others who may be interested. I am in NY, on my way to Atlanta, so it won't be torn into for a week, but it's boring sitting around so this is something to do for a while. A bit of background on these if you don't want to read back into the thread: The blue paint 50 and some others have a Mistral-looking HP valve and lever assembly. but differ because they are a downstream valve with no venturi tube. Tank pressure wants to open the valve on these, rather than close it like the Mistral. The valve is held closed by spring pressure. This was to "compensate", making it easier to breathe off a full tank and growing harder as the tank emptied; the opposite of the Mistral- type upstream valve which grew easier to breathe from as the tank emptied. There is discussion here about turning the big hole toward the intake horn vs the factory's small hole or no hole setting. On mine, I turned the small hole toward the intake horn because I found the venturi effect too strong for my liking with the big hole pointed there. However, since my TitanĀ II experiments, I've found that a few degrees of offset can be used to calibrate the venturi effect, and I might want to increase it a bit, or go back to the big hole and decrease it a bit. I will post pics asap. I rebuilt one a few years ago. I have another in the "to be completed in the future" bin. Need to repaint the bottom can Voit blue. More projects than I have time for right now. Looking forward to watching your rebuild come to life. Mark
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Post by vance on Jun 19, 2019 14:12:27 GMT -8
I got back from my East Coast trip early. Got the 50 Fathom apart to find it in fantastic shape on the inside. The valve looks pristine, and I took the sintered filter off to peer down its snout. Perfect. The old gray diaphragm (probably the original) is a bit discolored, stiff, and gunked up with the duckbill turned to goo. So I cleaned the cans, put the thing back together with a NOS diaphragm and hooked it up. Works great, no leaks.
Since the current wisdom is to leave it alone if it doesn't leak, that's the plan. You know, "If it ain't broke, leave it the f*** alone..." Great advice. I ordered a new silicone diaphragm, DBE, sintered filter and clip, and non-return valves. So let's consider this a service rather than a rebuild. I will post pics when I get some after disassembling it again.
I did some fooling around with the valve position in order to find a good balance for venturi effect. In the stock position, small hole facing the intake horn, the reg breathes adequately. The other stock position, utilizing the second pin hole, faces the blank side of the valve at the intake horn. This decreases the effect even more.
Turning the big hole to the intake increases the venturi significantly, making it objectionably strong and likely to induce free-flow. If you take a big breath and take the mp out of your mouth, it will start to free-flow. Keeping the mp in your mouth will keep it from flowing, but I don't like the force of the air delivery, and wonder if it will be uncontrollable in the water.
I am going to play around with different angles, that is; how directly/indirectly the hole points at the intake horn to see if I can de-tune it a bit, but still achieve a little more venturi effect than the small hole delivers. A few more holes drilled in the can that allows a range of valve positions might be a solution. I think an adjusting screw installed in the valve body that can be used to regulate the airflow from the big hole would be ideal. I might try this on my own 50F.
Some people who have changed the valve body position in the cans w/o utilizing a pin to retain position depend on calibration marks or some other way to keep an eye on positioning. Tuning is too delicate and there are too many things that can happen to depend on this, IMO. I want my tuning to be locked in, and not changeable by a deckhand who insists on lifting my tank by the regulator or some such.
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Post by SeaRat on Jun 19, 2019 15:15:59 GMT -8
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Post by vance on Jun 19, 2019 16:09:21 GMT -8
Thanks John. I remember seeing this restrictor plate elsewhere, but I think by turning the valve a few degrees off center might accomplish the same thing. BUT, it would be a simple matter to drill a hole in the valve body and threading it for a spring retained screw that would calibrate the venturi. That would be the ultimate mod for this.
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Post by SeaRat on Jun 19, 2019 17:19:46 GMT -8
Thanks John. I remember seeing this restrictor plate elsewhere, but I think by turning the valve a few degrees off center might accomplish the same thing. BUT, it would be a simple matter to drill a hole in the valve body and threading it for a spring retained screw that would calibrate the venturi. That would be the ultimate mod for this. There actually should be a hole already in the main body, for a pin that would mate to a hole in the box, which alligns also with a hole in the spacer. All you need to do is ID where the hole should be in the box, drill it and use the pin to pin it into place. That would be easier than threading a screw into that spacer disc. John
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