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Post by Nemo on Jan 11, 2015 2:00:13 GMT -8
Last I heard (many months ago) Ty Alley stopped making Aquala drysuits. I will eventually need to make my own 20,000 Leagues drysuits if I intend to continue diving these rigs. Anyone know of a rubber manufacturer who can produce rolls of laminated vulcanized rubber sheet with either gray or brown on white? I've got feelers out elsewhere but this group is reliable and someone here might know. If you wanted to build your own vintage-style drysuit; where would you get the rubber to cut your patterns from? (I know where to get gloves, booties, and collar gaskets. I need a source for the rubber laminate sheeting that the body panels will be cut from.} With that material and my improved design templates, this new batch will match the original Disney suits closer than ever before. I needs a vector, Victor!  |
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Post by DavidRitchieWilson on Jan 12, 2015 23:14:53 GMT -8
Last I heard (many months ago) Ty Alley stopped making Aquala drysuits. So sorry to hear this. The company originally founded by Bill Barada and its drysuits has been around since the early 1950s, first as Bel-Aqua then as Aquala, the "-la" suffix first standing for "Los Angeles" and now for "Louisiana". The Aquala website at www.aquala.com/aquala.htmlappears to be working as normal... If you wanted to build your own vintage-style drysuit; where would you get the rubber to cut your patterns from? Are you familiar with the following thread on another forum, entitled "My attempt at a reproduction UDT back entry drysuit" at www.vintagedoublehose.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6890Having constructed a vintage suit of his own from scratch, the original poster of the thread must have plenty of knowledge and experience to share. |
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Post by Nemo on Jan 14, 2015 1:30:11 GMT -8
Thanks DRW; I've applied for a membership at VDH so I can email the drysuit builder. Have to wait for the membership to be approved.
Meanwhile, I recall sending you a PM here not long ago about a yellow drysuit you posted pics of; did you make that one or have any info on who did and what where they got their rubber?
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Post by Nemo on Jan 14, 2015 1:33:29 GMT -8
DRW: Oops! Didn't see your PM answering my question about the yellow suit. Disregard my last.  |
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Post by Nemo on Jan 14, 2015 20:58:28 GMT -8
Thanks DRW. I'm signed on at VDH now as "Leaguer" and have left a PM asking that gent about his green suit. Thanks for the vector! :-)
Pat
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Post by DavidRitchieWilson on Jan 15, 2015 3:35:03 GMT -8
Good to hear, Pat. Keep us informed of your progress. A design involving gluing together rubber sheeting is probably the only practical solution when planning to construct a do-it-yourself vintage dry suit. An authentic seamless vintage drysuit like my safety-yellow Totes would have required a "dipping" process necessitating industrial-scale tooling. When the two British diving equipment companies Siebe-Gorman and Heinke merged in the early 1960s, the successor firm Siebe-Heinke brought out a seamless "Dip" suit to compete with the imported American Skooba-"totes", but discontinued the line after a couple of years, citing "manufacturing difficulties." Period newspaper ads for "imperfect" Totes suits from the early 1960s suggest that the process used by their manufacturer, So-Lo Marx of Loveland OH, could not guarantee complete success every time either.
David
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Post by Nemo on Jan 15, 2015 12:21:29 GMT -8
Interesting info; I didn't know about the dipping process. Thanks for that DRW.
Yes, I'll be gluing pieces together and have my templates made already; just need the right rubber. Thanks for your help. If anyone else has any suggestions (rubber manufacturers) please let me know. Thanks.
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Post by cstmwrks on Jan 15, 2015 13:26:13 GMT -8
When the two British diving equipment companies Siebe-Gorman and Heinke merged in the early 1960s, the successor firm Siebe-Heinke brought out a seamless "Dip" suit to compete with the imported American Skooba-"totes", but discontinued the line after a couple of years, citing "manufacturing difficulties." Period newspaper ads for "imperfect" Totes suits from the early 1960s suggest that the process used by their manufacturer, So-Lo Marx of Loveland OH, could not guarantee complete success every time either. David Hi David, I can shed some light on this subject. Long before the very first dipped Hydroglove dry suit was made, I did a modest amount of research on Totes. Of all people, Phil Nuytten provided me with some of the details. One being the formula of material they dipped there suits in. Decades later that blend can still be purchased but the compounder that I deal with told me that it was a very unstable mix. They could blend it, but they would not guarantee it being stable for delivery 2 miles down the road. Let alone shipping it across the nation. |
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Post by cstmwrks on Jan 15, 2015 13:34:02 GMT -8
Last I heard (many months ago) Ty Alley stopped making Aquala drysuits. I will eventually need to make my own 20,000 Leagues drysuits if I intend to continue diving these rigs. Anyone know of a rubber manufacturer who can produce rolls of laminated vulcanized rubber sheet with either gray or brown on white? Look on Thomas Register on line. There are mills out there that can make the rubber. Problem may be that you would have to buy $3,000.00+ at a time. From what I know about aqualas rubber, it is not a patented formula, or if so it has run out. So any one in theory can buy it. I just never learned what mill made that two ply material. |
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Post by Nemo on Jan 16, 2015 4:54:26 GMT -8
CSTMWRKS: Thank you. I have checked the Thomas Register and emailed /phoned a few companies without success; found some making rubber for gaskets but not what's needed here.
There's nothing about the chemical formula or manufacturing process used to make Aqualaply that could possibly still be proprietary after all these years. It looks like I'll have to start sending out samples. Any company that produces rubber must have chemists who can analyze and reproduce it. As you say the trick is to find the mill that will make it. I appreciate your help; if you recall anything else please let us know. And if I get lucky I'll post the info here and at VDH where I've also been asking around.
I think you're right about the minimum order volume / cost and that's OK. I'm not looking to go into business making and selling suits but I dive Leagues rigs and have to ensure my future operations.
The first Nemosuit disintegrated in about a year and was replaced with one cut from a new batch of rubber. I do know that Ty went the rounds with his supplier's chemists about rubber durability and color; but he wouldn't disclose who they were.
At this moment I've got one Nemo, a Nemo jacket, and four Crew Diver suits. All are in good condition and not showing any signs of stress but I might need some more in the future and that's the problem.
Ty told me a few years ago he wanted to sell the company; I wasn't in a position to buy. Getting my last two Crew suits took a long time. He said he was having problems with chemists and finally told me he didn't want to do it any more; said his "heart wasn't into it."
I see the website's still up. A few months ago I sent him two emails asking if he would consider making suits if I landed a movie deal with Disney; no reply.
He used to sell suits on eBay, too; but he hasn't done that for a long time so it looks like he's out of business.
Am I wrong? Has anybody had any recent dealings with Aquala?
If I have to make my own suits I can. The templates I've come up with will fit more comfortably and be closer to what we see in the movie, so maybe there's an upside to this.
Anyway, thanks to everyone and the search goes on. Please get involved if you can help.
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Post by cstmwrks on Jan 16, 2015 6:43:36 GMT -8
Hi Nemo,
A few more hints, try rubber compounders as a search term. You may end up finding places that deal in liquid rather than milled rubber. Still, it is a place to start. The rubber production community in the USA is getting pretty small and it may be a case of talking to the right person that " knows a company that knows the company who can provide what you need."
For what it is worth it is still a USA company that makes both the latex parts they use and the rubber sheet itself. Subject to change at a moments notice of course.
Sad that Aquala is falling by the wayside. Though I suspect I know part of it from my own personnel experience. Price of rubber keeps going up. In order to sell a product you need to keep prices low. Aquala suits being a hand made item it means YOUR wage gets cut. I went through that in a few short years when I hand made dry suit replicas in natural rubber. Once prices got to the point that your working at the same rate as an 18 year old flipping burgers it gets pointless.
If you ever find a supply of rubber and the contact cement that will work well with it let me know. I'll tell you what I know on the subject of cut and glue suit assembly.
Some day I may even have colors again AND a synthetic blend formula as well. I could build the forms to make your suits if you ever get the Disney movie deal.
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Post by Nemo on Jan 16, 2015 14:38:33 GMT -8
Hey CUSTMWRKS,
First of all, my apologies; I didn't realize to whom I was speaking. I don't do website discussion groups much at all any more (VSS is one of only three I still visit) so I didn't connect you with Hydroglove at first. Now that I have, I appreciate your suggestion about making the suits and was actually on my way here right now to ask you about that. Good to know; thanks.
I have samples of the rubber and the cement; doesn't smell like there's anything special about the glue.
I understand the methods used to prepare and mate the surfaces for bonding. I can do it but even if I get the rubber it's a question of available time. I have too much on my plate as it is and would rather farm this work out. Making them myself would be a last resort. If Ty's not going to do it I appreciate hearing from anyone else who can. Even if the Disney deal never happens I would still like to buy some rubber and have some suits made.
I will follow your lead and search rubber compounders; thank you.
I know what you mean about this being labor intensive and not all that lucrative. I know Ty put a lot of work into each suit. He has other economic options going for him, though; wife and young kids; and maybe he just started thinking it wasn't worth the effort any more. I don't know and I try not to speculate.
All I do know is I have many years of my life and a lot of money tied up in producing functional replica Leagues rigs and now I no longer have a source for vintage drysuits of this type. I can't let this project fail now that Ty no longer wants to be involved with it; and I won't.
Appreciate your insight and interest; thank you. I'm gonna go check VDH now to see if I got any other leads.
Mahalo plenty you guys. I'll be back around later. Thanks.
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Post by SeaRat on Jan 16, 2015 14:54:04 GMT -8
Pat and others who may wish to put together dry suits by hand; these involve the use of solvents which can have some health effects. In order to use these and do the job right, without suffering the toxic effects of the solvents, a respirator and gloves which are impermeable to the solvent are needed. First, read the Safety Data Sheet (used to be called the MSDS, or Material Safety Data Sheet). Here is the MSDS for Toluene, which was used for wet suit cement. It will tell you what type of gloves are needed, if it is written correctly. If you are adhering natural rubber with a solvent, then you need gloves made of a different material, such as nitril. You need to use a glove selection chart. If you look at the chart, you can see it will give you "Permiation Breakthrough" times in minutes. You want one for your solvent that is in excess of 480 minutes (>480) if at all possible (one day of work). Then, change them out daily. A respirator is also necessary to preclude breathing the vapors, with the resulting potential for both intoxication and internal organ damage. Respirators are of the chemical cartridge variety, and the cartridge is for "organic vapors and acid gases." A full-face cartridge respirator will offer eye protection as well. These need to be "fit tested," so have someone who knows how to do as do a fit test on you. However, a half-face or full face respirator won't work if you have a beard (which I'm pretty sure Pat has). So the alternative is powered-air purifying respirator (PAPR). This is a bit more expensive, but it precludes exposure and comes with a hood that can be used with a beard. Just some thoughts from the industrial hygiene side of me. This stuff is important; the guy who built several of my wet suits, Bill Herter of Deep Sea Bill's in Newport, Oregon did so without this protection, and passed away of a blood disorder I suspect was caused by the wet suit cement he used over the years. The other potential is for fire/explosion, as solvents have a lower explosion limit and an upper flammability limit. Below the LEL, there is not enough oxygen in the air/solvent mixture to explode the mixture; above it, there is too much solvent to explode the mixture. Here are these limits for toluene: Flammable Limits: LOWER: 1.1% UPPER: 7.1% This means that if you do this operation, you should not do it indoors where there are potential sources of ignition, such as in a garage. I just want everyone to know the potential for hazards here. John John C. Ratliff, CSP, CIH, MSPH (I'm retired now, but just spent money to renew my CSP and CIH designations--more than the cost of a respirator, and so need to use them somewhere.) |
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Post by cstmwrks on Jan 16, 2015 16:24:37 GMT -8
Hey CUSTMWRKS, I have samples of the rubber and the cement; doesn't smell like there's anything special about the glue. There may not be anything special about it. It could very well be a "generic" contact cement for synthetics used on inflatable rubber rafts. Not slamming Aquala ( this would apply to every owner the company had ) but it is not out of the question for a business to convince you that you have to buy "there" glue. When it is available to millions of other users under a different name. Now that I think about it that is most likely the case. I doubt that there is a company out there that makes small runs of fresh contact cement just for aquala rubber. I know what you mean about this being labor intensive and not all that lucrative. I know Ty put a lot of work into each suit. He has other economic options going for him, though; wife and young kids; and maybe he just started thinking it wasn't worth the effort any more. I don't know and I try not to speculate. In any case it is sad to see Aquala fad away. Maybe some one who wants a 'hobby business to keep busy and is not worried about making money and raising a family will buy it. All I do know is I have many years of my life and a lot of money tied up in producing functional replica Leagues rigs and now I no longer have a source for vintage drysuits of this type. I can't let this project fail now that Ty no longer wants to be involved with it; and I won't. I hear you on that. Nothing worse than having a supply line cut. Wars get won or lost with that. I hope you find a mill that can produce a type of rubber with the similar characteristics. |
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Post by Nemo on Jan 16, 2015 18:13:12 GMT -8
Absolutely right, John. Things like toluene, acetone, and what's in many fiberglassing and casting products are really bad for you. I'm always concerned about that when I work. Thanks.
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