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Post by surflung on Sept 28, 2015 13:02:47 GMT -8
Kraken Owners Group (KOG) - We had a meeting of the Kraken Owners Group at Fortune Pond last weekend. SeaHunt Jerry dove his Kraken vintage style (without attachments) and wore a color coordinated red BC, red tank, and red trimmed jet fins. SwimJim Bach dove his Kraken technical style with every conceivable attachment screwed into it. And SurfLung Eb dove his Kraken conventional PADI style with OxyCheq BC, auto inflator, safe second single hose regulator, and pressure gauge. - The Argonaut Kraken is a modern high performance double hose regulator made in the USA.
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Post by scubadiverbob on Sept 28, 2015 19:58:47 GMT -8
I dove a while ago with my Hydrotwin II ... a high performance balanced regulator. Just curious how a kraken would compare to it. I don't know what style I dove it .... I guess almost modern (I used a pony jacket bc that was from the early 80's); but, no computer (I guess that makes it vintage, right?) and I used a film camera (that wasn't vintage). I like the red hoses! Where can I buy a set for my Hydrotwin?
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Post by scubadiverbob on Sept 28, 2015 20:02:28 GMT -8
Do the red hoses ha ve screw on mouth pieces (Hop-page) to make it easy to dry the hoses?
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Post by herman on Sept 29, 2015 4:23:42 GMT -8
The hoses are the same design as the regular USD hoses,just red. They will fit any USD or Voit DH and use the standard USD mouthpieces however at this time they are only available if you purchase a Kraken. The Kraken comes with thumb screw on the reg end hose clamps. With no duckbill to upset, the easiest way to clean the hoses is to remove them from the reg, flush the hoses and let them dry off the reg.
I have never dove a HT II but I suspect the Kraken will out perform it by a good margin. Besides new soft main diaphragms, the second stage is very adjustable. Cracking pressure can be adjusted to a very low level...too low actually,cracking pressures of less than half an inch are easy to achieve however it's best to keep the cracking pressure in the 3/4ICW range. In addition, the reg was designed with a very effective venturi, which is also adjustable to suit the diver.
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Post by diverdon on Sept 29, 2015 4:59:11 GMT -8
Let it be known that many a vintage diver would love to buy a Kraken piecemeal. Staring with the hoses and mouthpiece  #1 Diverdon #2 Scubadiverbob #3 #4 Any other takers? |
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Post by herman on Sept 29, 2015 8:15:05 GMT -8
I doubt Bryan will ever sell them in pieces. From a performance standpoint you can get very close with a Phoenix, HPR and duckbill eliminator in a RAM or DA. You do lose some of the adjustability of the second stage and the increased performance of the exhaust but it does come close. I dove a prototype Kraken in a DA body with a DBE for a couple of years and a Phoenix equipped like above before that so I have a good feel for how they perform. As far as the hoses and mouthpiece, they are no different than any other USD DH reg, just red. The red is somewhat of a trademark of the Kraken so the red ones are not being sold to make the reg stand out in a crowd and they do. I am so looking forward to the day I see a set of the hoses on a diver I don't know. But you can order one with black or yellow hoses so you can get those colors if you like.
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Post by scubadiverbob on Oct 1, 2015 10:43:55 GMT -8
Herman,
You should try a Hydrotwin II sometime! It also doesn't need a "duckbill eliminator" and it looks to me that the "duckbill eliminator" was copied from what is in the Hydrotwins ....
Robert
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Post by scubadiverbob on Oct 1, 2015 10:46:17 GMT -8
Guess that doesn't matter ... the company that designed and made the Hydrotwin is no longer in existence. Copyrights and patents are probably expired years ago, right?
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Post by nikeajax on Oct 1, 2015 11:39:27 GMT -8
Herman, It also doesn't need a "duckbill eliminator" and it looks to me that the "duckbill eliminator" was copied from what is in the Hydrotwins .... Robert Robert, the HT's exhaust port was taken from the Healthways Scuba Deluxe:  Sam Lecocq, the force behind Sportsways/Waterlung, left Healthways to start his own company... Does this HP seat, with the red mark on it look familiar to you:  It should, ol' Sam took it with him, and that idea was taken from Divair, the one on the right... Jaybird |
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Post by surflung on Oct 1, 2015 11:42:37 GMT -8
- There's a term I've heard in reference to top notch engineering: "Elegant". For example, "That's an elegant design... ". Bob's been discussing the duckbill eliminator in terms of copying designs and it has me wondering who originated that approach. The pictures I've seen of the exhaust valve on the hydro twin look like a folded and soldered piece of sheet metal with a mushroom valve in the middle. Not physically "elegant" but that might be simply because it was the first attempt at doing it differently than with a duckbill. The IDEA for using a mushroom valve may be the "elegant" component of the Sportsways design. I have a Dacor Dial-A-Breath that has a second diaphragm with a mushroom exhaust valve instead of a duckbill. I wouldn't say that one was "elegant" because it seems more like a gimmick to have 2 diaphragms... It's certainly interesting and clever, though. The idea for putting a mushroom exhaust in the middle of the diaphragm was also used by Voit and Aqualung single hose regulator designs. I have a Nemrod Snark III double hose that DOES have a truly elegant mushroom exhaust design. I think it's molded right into the cans. And it's centered in the middle if I remember correctly... I assume for equal inhale/exhale water pressure positioning? - The "Elegance" of the original "Duckbill Eliminator" (designed by Allan Klauda, Rob Sewell, and Bryan Pennington) is that it is made to CONVERT a duckbill exhaust to a mushroom valve exhaust... It's so simple, sleek, straight forward, and installs so easily... All of that makes it an elegant design... Not simply that it uses a mushroom valve. - But the Argonaut Kraken... This seems to take the best of all approaches: Molding the mushroom exhaust valve sleekly into the can after designing it with the most optimum airflow. Positioning it in the center... Everything is computer design modeled and optimized on the Kraken.  - The idea that anyone "copied" the duckbill eliminator from the Hydro Twin is unfair in my opinion. Sportsways didn't invent the mushroom valve. And as far as using that type of valve for exhaust, you can see several companies took entirely different approaches to using a mushroom valve instead of a duckbill. No offense intended... I know fully how good Sportways valves are, and in particular how desirable the Hydro-Twin regulator is. |
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Post by nikeajax on Oct 1, 2015 13:11:07 GMT -8
Eb, here ya go my friend:  This is my Snark-III's guts exposed. This has to be the largest exhaust diaphragm I've ever seen outside a BCD; people love, love, love the way these things breathe: I've even heard some say it out performs their DA... JB |
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Post by surflung on Oct 1, 2015 13:21:33 GMT -8
Yeah Man... That Nemrod Snark III is ONE ELEGANT DESIGN!
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Post by nikeajax on Oct 1, 2015 14:01:11 GMT -8
Eb, in the world of the arts they refer to this as "form follows function". Here are a few truly classic examples:  1934 Chrysler Airflow  Pennsylvania RR's S1 As an artist I get so frustrated: with things that have "clean" and "sleek" designs like iphones they've taken all of the artistry out of everything. I really think the old Healthways single hose regs are just beautiful, or as you put it, elegant...  They don't look like anything else ever made, do they? JB |
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Post by duckbill on Oct 1, 2015 16:55:45 GMT -8
DUCKBILL ELIMINATORS DON'T SCARE ME. I DARE THEM TO COME AND TRY TO TAKE ME ON! I BREATHE JUST FINE.
THEY CALL ME DUCKBILL, BUT I'M ALSO SECRETLY 'DUCKBILL ELIMINATOR TERMINATOR'!!!....
BAM! POW! WHAM!
KAPOW!!!
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Post by nikeajax on Oct 1, 2015 18:38:11 GMT -8
And his side kick Tilt-valve Boy...
JB
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