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Post by luis on Oct 4, 2015 4:27:55 GMT -8
A legitimate hydro station should have a + stamp. The hydro stations in my area have them (at least the ones that I will do business with).
If the operator is not very careful , using a chisel can make it look like it is a “tail gate stamp” and it is not legitimate. A fill station operator would be justified to question markings that do not look professionally done.
The ID number in the hydro stamp makes it easy to trace if it is a legitimate hydro, but I doubt that any fill station will go through the trouble. If they question it, they will just reject it.
If they are very careful, a hydro station can use a long dash stamp (and rotate it 90 degrees), but I would still question that practice.
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Post by red on Oct 4, 2015 6:51:07 GMT -8
A screwdriver?! Shocking, absolutely shocking.(VBG)
Although, if I was filling a tank and it looked like the "+" wasn't a perfect 90 degrees but was some yahoos screwdriver strikes? I sure as hell wouldn't fill it.
Same thing for hydro stamps that look handmade with fine calligraphy, too.(G)
Luis- That "long dash" also doesn't come in a basic die stamp set, it will cost the same $128 that a plus sign will cost. These are some of the few things that you can't just order from stock on Amazon. Yet.
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Post by time2dive on Oct 4, 2015 10:27:19 GMT -8
I am not sure where they sell a "+" stamp for $128.....my source for a single stamp is $27, a complete set of numbers is about $60.
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Post by red on Oct 4, 2015 11:12:50 GMT -8
I couldn't find an "plus" stamps as stock items, only as "custom" dies at a custom price. You obviously know a better place to get stamping dies!
Share?
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Post by duckbill on Oct 4, 2015 15:06:12 GMT -8
If they are very careful, a hydro station can use a long dash stamp (and rotate it 90 degrees), but I would still question that practice. I'm not sure what difference there is between a "long dash" and a correct sized chizel. I can only speak from what I have seen. I presently have sixteen cylinders that were originally factory "+" qualified (all vintage, of course), and not one single "+" stamped requalification was done by using a manufactured "+" stamp tool. Here are stamps I see from various requalifiers...
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Post by luis on Oct 4, 2015 17:54:03 GMT -8
The three stamps from the 60’s (pre DOT ID number) don’t look very professional do they. Those could have just as easily being “tail gate hydros”. Definition of “tail gate hydro” is when the owner of a dive shop would load his truck with tanks to take them to the hydro station. He disappeared for a few hours and then returned with all the tanks with a fresh stamp. I have never seen it happen, but I have heard stories… The proper stamps are available from the hydro test equipment supplier. Any professional DOT licensed station should have the proper equipment and stamps. The + stamp is only $27 www.hydro-test.com/ecommerce/misc-items/stamps.html
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Post by red on Oct 4, 2015 20:14:31 GMT -8
Thanks, Luis. That confirms my faith in...Oh wait, Barnum and Clemens both said I shouldn't say those things about the public intellect.(G)
While we're all talking gas...If I read it right, a cylinder 30" of shorter that is in (US) government use, containing nitrogen and oxygen, would be painted all green, with the top quarter of the tank [sic] being painted the same green, followed immediately by a black 2" wide band and a green (again) band.
So, in theory a nitrox cylinder should be all green with a 2" wide black band right below the top 1/4 of the tank. None of this yellow and green nonsense. Yes?
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Post by duckbill on Oct 4, 2015 21:28:07 GMT -8
The three stamps from the 60’s (pre DOT ID number) don’t look very professional do they. If by not looking very professional you mean that they lack the uniquely assigned designators we are used to getting today, you are right. From what I can see on my cylinders, somewhere between 1985 and 1987 is where the unique DOT retester numerical designations started. All the stampings on mine prior to that look "hokey" by today's standard, whether "+" stamped or not. I don't have the time to photograph all of the dozens of stampings on my own cylinders, but I know that as far as retest "+" stamps, mine stand at 6-0 as to chiseled vs. purpose-made tools. Unless there is a DOT-mandated way to make a "+" mark, I was simply pointing out to red that an actual "+" tool is not necessary, and not having one is not a valid excuse for a hydro facility not to stamp as such.
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Post by time2dive on Oct 5, 2015 0:50:39 GMT -8
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Post by luis on Oct 5, 2015 3:30:10 GMT -8
The three stamps from the 60’s (pre DOT ID number) don’t look very professional do they. If by not looking very professional you mean that they lack the uniquely assigned designators we are used to getting today, you are right. From what I can see on my cylinders, somewhere between 1985 and 1987 is where the unique DOT retester numerical designations started. All the stampings on mine prior to that look "hokey" by today's standard, whether "+" stamped or not. I don't have the time to photograph all of the dozens of stampings on my own cylinders, but I know that as far as retest "+" stamps, mine stand at 6-0 as to chiseled vs. purpose-made tools. Unless there is a DOT-mandated way to make a "+" mark, I was simply pointing out to red that an actual "+" tool is not necessary, and not having one is not a valid excuse for a hydro facility not to stamp as such. I am aware that the DOT ID numbers were not always used, that is why I referred to them as “pre DOT ID number”. I started operating a hydro machine around 1972. I was referring to the sloppy placement of numbers and symbols, and the incomplete + stamps that were obviously done with improvised tools. There is definitely a DOT mandate on the maximum depth of a stamp. The CFR and the CGA documents have a very clearly specified maximum allowable depth for the stamps. If that depth is exceeded, it is required to condemn the cylinder. If you notice in the link that I provided (or time2dive) the stamps intended for cylinder stamping have a very specific depth and they are all backed with a flat surface. Those stamps are specifically designed to limit the depth of penetration onto the tank neck. BTW, not all commercially available stamps are appropriate for this application because they may not be designed to limit penetration. A chisel on the other hand is a tool specifically designed to cut and penetrate. A good sharp chisel could easily penetrate far deeper than the allowed stamp depth. That would ruined a perfectly good tank that just passed hydro and plus rating. But the tech who used the chisel probably will not even know what he just did. Sure, you can get away with using the improper tool many times. Just like back yard mechanics often use crescent wrenches as hammers and screw drivers as many other tools (pry bars, chisels, etc.), but I hope to never see a professional mechanic miss-using tools in that way. If I ever saw a hydro test operator used a chisel, that would be the last time I would do business with them. I would probably warn them of the incorrect practice and may even report them to the DOT inspector if they insist on miss-treating high pressure cylinders.
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Post by luis on Oct 5, 2015 3:32:45 GMT -8
That is the same company that I quoted above. They relatively local to me and they seem to be a very good company to work with. My LDS (that just closed) actually drove down there to pick-up their hydro machine.
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Post by red on Oct 9, 2015 10:19:23 GMT -8
FWIW, I've never noticed a "REE" stamp, but then again, I don't go around squinting at other people's tanks, and mine obviously are all "Ree-less" early Chinese counterfeits. Heck, could even be Cold War Soviet counterfeits for all I know.(G)
Can anyone show or tell me what a "REE" stamp looks like? Does it say REE? Or is it just a different size and series of numbers? Located anyplace in particular in relation to the DOT stamp?
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Post by time2dive on Oct 10, 2015 17:41:46 GMT -8
It will say something like REE 69.5
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Post by red on Oct 10, 2015 18:26:12 GMT -8
Thanks. Can't recall ever seeing one.
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Post by time2dive on Oct 11, 2015 9:15:53 GMT -8
You will only see it on newer non vintage tanks. Faber has it on most of their newer steel tanks, some of the newer Norris, I am not sure if I have seen any Pressed Steel tanks with it.
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