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Post by nikeajax on Mar 3, 2016 10:03:03 GMT -8
John, one of the things I've noticed about the Pilot is that it has almost no exhaust manifold/tee: I'm really wanting to hear about your using it and where the bubbles end up JB
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Post by regulator68bj on Mar 3, 2016 12:20:57 GMT -8
Hi John
Re Left Handed "109" introduced 1977-78 as an Octopus unit with Orange mouthpiece and exhaust "T" pix of one on the "Scubapro" timeline web page.
john68
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Post by SeaRat on Mar 4, 2016 15:11:41 GMT -8
I have been working a bit on the Mark VII and the 109 second stages; both have diaphragm covers that need replacement. I breathed again off the Pilot, and it is smooth and nice. But I'm getting a bit of a "feeling" that there was a contaminant, so I took off the cover and top cover for a look. I pulled the LP diaphragm up, and looked at the underside--it was clean. But on the lever linkage, I noted a bit of rust. So I was getting a small amount of rust on the inside of my mouth--I won't be diving this reg until it is thoroughly cleaned. The top cover is interesting, in that the "aspirator port" is attached and seems fixed*, and the orientation of that port is simply in the rotation of the top cover. Since the top cover is threaded, and the O-ring is fairly heavy, it doesn't have to be screwed in completely to be sealed (ambient pressure seal). So it's orientation is changed simply by screwing the cover a bit off fully screwed in (the thirty degree angle I mentioned before).
Here are some 1977 Scubapro Catalog screen shots I took of the Pilot: Jaybird, I think this shot shows you where the bubbles will be going. John68, thanks for that information. Interestingly, after you posted that, I looked on the 1977 catalog that I used above and found the left-handed 109. I am going out to get some shots of my second stage Pilot, now somewhat disassembled (not completely yet). John *So my post below, as this aspirator port is only held in by O-rings, and can be moved when the cover is screwed down tight.
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Post by SeaRat on Mar 7, 2016 18:08:51 GMT -8
A quick update on these regulators.
The Mark VII that was leaking had an O-ring placed inside where the seat goes that was too large. It had twisted, and was not sealing. I tried another O-ring that looked correct, and it also was too large. So I saw an O-ring on a new HP gauge plug, and it looked correct. I took it off, and it fit perfectly into that hole, and when I screwed the seat retainer into the regulator, and put it onto a tank, it sealed! So the O-ring that fits the new-style gauge plugs also fits this part of the Mark VII. I checked the IP, and it looks to be about 135 psig, going down to 125 psig when I released the gauges valve. I cannot use the original 109 second stage, as the exhaust diaphragm and the diaphragm both were badly deteriorated and need replacement. I just happen to have an A.I.R. I second stage that I bought for parts, but put back into shape, and so I mounted it onto the regulator, and it breaths nicely. So it is now ready to hit the water, and the sonic alarm is working on it, as it was buzzing at between 300 and 500 psig (Scubapro gauge on the other regulator reads 500 psig, but my hand-held gauge reads 300 psig--I'll have to sort that out).
Now, concerning the Pilot, I told you wrong above. The aspirator port is only held in place by two O-rings, and can be moved when the cover is completely screwed in. (I'll make that note on the earlier post.) It can be moved with an rod from inside the mouthpiece, but seemed "stuck" because the original O-ring had not been lubricated in many, many years. Since this is an ambient pressure seal, I don't think it needs replacing.
John
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Post by nikeajax on Mar 7, 2016 20:06:33 GMT -8
John, just how many o-rings duz that sucker got in'et? I've heard they're kind of a PITA to work on, but that NEVER stops me... Kin ya post sum picherz uv the gutz I needs ta see'um (could you please post some images, I'd like to see what you're working on).
Smarty-party, Jaybird
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Post by SeaRat on Mar 7, 2016 20:08:20 GMT -8
I have some in the camera that I have yet to download. I'll do it a bit later. Here's a diagram I got from ScubaBoard's thread on the Scubapro Pilot. I have enhanced it so that it is easier to read than it is over on ScubaBoard. Photos to follow. Note that the O-ring I was talking about in the recent post above is in the first stage, the Mark VII. It is not in the Pilot. John
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Post by diverdon on Mar 16, 2016 13:40:07 GMT -8
I've been working on the one Mark VII/109...I also noted that the aspirator port was at about a 30 degree angle off being straight into the mouth John[/quote] Hey John, I have one like that. It came with a MK9 (left in second image), that has no swivel in the turret. It's an odd little guy and I plan to get it in diving shape some day. DD
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Post by SeaRat on Mar 18, 2016 19:29:27 GMT -8
A couple of interesting developments that I need to capture here. First, here's the Pilot's patent: www.google.com/patents/US4076041There are good diagrams and descriptions of the regulator's function therein. Second, I have gotten the tanks that this regulator was on to a very low pressure, about 200-300 psig, and the Pilot second stage would not flow air, whereas the 109 second stage did flow significant air. I'm not quite sure what's happening there. I'll get the photos I've taken downloaded over the weekend. John
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Post by SeaRat on Mar 21, 2016 8:04:19 GMT -8
Here are a few photos of the Mark V/Pilot/left-handed 109 that I recently picked up. This is the Mark V/Pilot on my twin 45s. Here is the Pilot itself. The upper cap, and the spring and nozzle that are accessible from the top. Looking down on the pilot valve, from the top. I removed the diaphragm cover, and pulled out the diaphragm, which is only clipped into the regulator on the bottom. The left-handed 109 is slightly disassembled behind. Looking into the Pilot, with the diaphragm pulled out, you can see a blurry image of the main lever. John
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Post by diverdon on Mar 21, 2016 8:13:52 GMT -8
Looks good, John. Are they working fine now? I had one years ago, along with a 400, but I found them to be a bear to work on so I sold them long ago. Kinda wish I had kept them now. I can't wait to hear how they dive.
DD
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Post by nikeajax on Mar 21, 2016 10:17:21 GMT -8
An' I wanna know what that does to yer mask/vision when ya breath out...
JB
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Post by SeaRat on Mar 21, 2016 16:17:28 GMT -8
An' I wanna know what that does to yer mask/vision when ya breath out... JB Jaybird, Not much; but tighten the mask down a bit, as in some positions the bubbles do come right up to it. Here's a very similar regulator I've been diving for years, the Scubapro A.I.R. I. Here I'm diving the A.I.R. I in Clear Lake, and you can see where the bubbles go. But, you can also see the big, wide-view mask I'm wearing. John
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Post by Seahuntjerry on Mar 22, 2016 19:28:18 GMT -8
Hi John, I worked for a Scubapro dealer for 36 plus years.The bottom o ring on the pilot is almost impossible to get out as told to me by the Lifelong tech there.If you can get your together with out leaking ,suggest you leave the bottom o ring in it.There are any 3 people I know who still service an original pilot,not an up graded air 1 guts model. Took my pilot apart at Pete Wolfingers reg class in 1976 and no one including Scubapro could get it to stop leaking,their solution gave me an new AIr 1.
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Post by SeaRat on Mar 25, 2016 8:48:54 GMT -8
First, thanks SeaHuntJerry for that bit of advise. The Pilot is now blowing air quite hard on inhalation, and I don't yet know if it is just the orientation of the nozzle, or something more sinister. But it looks like I will need to disassemble it more to see what's going on. I had hoped to put it into the pool on Sunday, but that may not happen.
John
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Post by nikeajax on Mar 25, 2016 9:06:57 GMT -8
John, I've heard what helps when replacing that o-ring is to go a graveyard at midnight on a full moon, face east and then cut the hoses of a NOS RAM... My buddy Jim Steel was saying that yeah, they are nice regs, but that it had too many o-rings, which I didn't understand at the time, after all, how hard could it be to swap out an o-ring right? JB
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