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Post by SeaRat on Feb 17, 2017 14:30:24 GMT -8
retpo,
I don't think the left verses right intake is a problem, other than trying to flip it in your mind when clearing the hoses. But the space in the Nemrod mouthpiece is so tiny it should not make much difference.
The bigger problem is simply balancing the hose/mouthpiece for your mouth. Because (and I'm pretty sure of this) the Nemrod mouthpiece is offset, you don't want to bite it upside-down, so you have to take it off, take out the non-returns, and switch them, then reattach the mouthpiece in the "up" position for an upside-down hose loop. Because the Nemrod hoses are longer than others, this should not be a problem either.
But trying to mount the horns directly opposite each other may present problems, as the orientation on the intake side is pretty well fixed, I think.
John
PS, for anyone interested, there is a Snark III on E-Bay right now for $150. Look down and you should see it in the advertisement below. But it is a Snark III, not a Snark III Silver (which is what is advertised).
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retpo
Senior Diver
Posts: 63 
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Post by retpo on Feb 17, 2017 15:19:48 GMT -8
I already have an Aqua-Lung hose assembly on it, and that mouthpiece is off set too, so no problem there. The bigger hose assembly/mouthpiece and silicone mistral diaphragm made a huge difference.
Your right, the intake horn is fixed and nothing can be done about that, unless new FX cans were to be made for it. The preceding comment was a hint.
The whole reg body could be turned enough so it sits a little crooked on the valve and the exhaust horn rotated opposite intake. The hoses would be pointed somewhat upward at the expense of the regulator can being a little rotated.
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retpo
Senior Diver
Posts: 63
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Post by retpo on Feb 17, 2017 15:26:17 GMT -8
Would be glad to help, but I have no clue how to go about it.
psiwriter@yahoo.com
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Post by SeaRat on Feb 17, 2017 15:32:37 GMT -8
I already have an Aqua-Lung hose assembly on it, and that mouthpiece is off set too, so no problem there. The bigger hose assembly/mouthpiece and silicone mistral diaphragm made a huge difference. Your right, the intake horn is fixed and nothing can be done about that, unless new FX cans were to be made for it. The preceding comment was a hint. The whole reg body could be turned enough so it sits a little crooked on the valve and the exhaust horn rotated opposite intake. The hoses would be pointed somewhat upward at the expense of the regulator can being a little rotated. retpo, This actually would not work (see highlighted text above), as the regulator's venturi is also fixed, making it not possible to rotate the intake horn. The other part, of rotating the exhalation can and then putting the regulator on sidewise could work, but would remove about half the advantage in terms of lowering the regulator. Basically, I don't see much advantage to an upside down mounting, but if you want to try and report back, go for it. John |
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Post by SeaRat on Feb 18, 2017 8:59:34 GMT -8
Has anyone heard of a Nemrod Snark IV TRD? Osman Yaşar Kulaç, in his Vintage Diving in Turkiye Facebook page, just posted four photos of a Nemrod Snark IV, with intriguing LP ports on it.     I don't know whether this was a specially made Snark III adaptation, or whether there is an actual Snark IV TRD. Any ideas? I'm going to ask him about it too. John |
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Post by SeaRat on Feb 18, 2017 11:15:43 GMT -8
I got responses from Turkey:  Interesting, there exists a different first stage for the Snark III, one that allows LP and HP ports. John |
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retpo
Senior Diver
Posts: 63
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Post by retpo on Feb 18, 2017 15:24:41 GMT -8
Actually John it should would work because I am not touching or in any way disturbing the relationship of any internal parts or venturi. The ONLY horn that gets moved (rotated) is the exhaust. Everything else is untouched.
Step 1, remove mouthpiece assembly
Step 2, remove ring and diaphragm cover and diaphragm.
Step 3, attach regulator to a tank upside down. The Intake horn is now at 4 O Clock and the exhaust is at 8 O Clock.
Step 4, loosen the yoke screw on the tank valve and rotate the intake horn to the 3 O Clock position by turning the entire regulator
Then tighten the yoke screw to hold the regulator body in this position. You didn't touch anything with a wrench, you just rotated and position the regulator on the tank valve.
Step 5, Install diaphragm and diaphragm cover with the exhaust horn at 9 O Clock.
The result should be the horns are opposite each other with the regulator body slightly ajar. The intake and exhaust hoses have changed sides. The regulator diaphragm will sit lower and the regulator should breath easier. How much easier I don't know but I'm guessing 1 1/2" water column. Is having intake and exhaust horn positioned opposite of standard worth the better breathing...I don't know that either. But its entirely reversible and all you need is a small screwdriver to take the clamp ring off and remove mouthpiece hose clamps.
I probably didn't explain this well first try out.
Maybe the simplest thing to try is re-orient the mouthpiece and just mount it horns down. I think that could be a problem with the way my doubles are set up, but I think it would be worth a try on a single tanks.
I'm about 5'5" and shrinking, so having a regulator sit a little lower is also a factor.
A half mile down the road, there was an ice fishing contest today. Will be awhile be fore I can get a dive in, but I am going to try what I am suggesting.
I wonder if Lothar ever saw one with the balance kit from Nemrod? And do they ever mount them upside down?
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Post by SeaRat on Feb 19, 2017 6:42:15 GMT -8
...A half mile down the road, there was an ice fishing contest today. Will be awhile be fore I can get a dive in, but I am going to try what I am suggesting. I wonder if Lothar ever saw one with the balance kit from Nemrod? And do they ever mount them upside down? Here's the response I received: I hear you on the ice...our river here, the Clackamas River where I dive, is almost in flood stage right now. I am thinking about diving today in the pool, but I just read that there may be a swim meet going on, so maybe I cannot get wet today too. John |
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retpo
Senior Diver
Posts: 63
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Post by retpo on Mar 1, 2017 20:17:36 GMT -8
First photo is the before mod. of the Snark, comparing regulator height.  After rotating exhaust side of can and mouthpiece orientation.  Close up of can  Have not tried it yet, but I don't see how it won't breath easier.... |
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Post by nikeajax on Mar 1, 2017 20:53:30 GMT -8
 PST...hey buddy, c'mere... Say, ya know yer label's kricked, don'cha?  JB |
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Post by vance on Sept 12, 2017 9:20:50 GMT -8
First photo is the before mod. of the Snark, comparing regulator height. After rotating exhaust side of can and mouthpiece orientation. Close up of can Have not tried it yet, but I don't see how it won't breath easier.... So, any testing on this configuration? I have a Snark 3 that I'm playing with, and want to mount lower and a bit offset (on a Y valve to allow for clearance for another first stage) by rotating the bottom can. The label does go wonky, and the hoses will have to be reversed (I'm using a DSV, btw), but it does create a space for a variety of first stages. My ScubaStar is the only one I have that fits with the Snark on stock-wise, but the Snark sits so high! I read the blog posts by Lothar (translation leaves much to be desired), but I don't think he addresses how he rotated his Snark to fit lower. I haven't looked at it closely, but because of the construction of the reg with its two part top can, everything might be able to rotate into a more desirable position. If that's so, I don't know why Nemrod didn't assemble them that way..... I'm also playing with making an adapter that will allow me to use a single hose first stage on the Y valve with single stage double hose regs. I'll post pics of everything when I get the parts. |
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Post by vance on Sept 12, 2017 9:41:33 GMT -8
I found this pic on the internet. It illustrates how the orientation might be changed by rotating everything so the tank connector is higher (optimally 12 o'clock). Notice the large cutout for the valve body.  The ring with the intake horn would have to be cut away to allow for valve placement in any kind of repositioning attempt. I know it isn't always the case but I can't help thinking the engineers would have built the reg to sit lower if it was practical.... I wonder why they didn't center the valve body in the casting. John mentions that the exhaust mushroom leaks in certain positions. Upside down? So inverting the valve body from 6 to 12 o'clock might cause the exhaust valve to leak all the time unless the diver stays upside down? Any ideas? I have a second junky one that might get cut up in the experiment, if there's no obvious reason why it isn't going to work. |
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Post by crabbyjim on Sept 12, 2017 19:31:26 GMT -8
I have a Silver Snark III seamless Blacklable that our Friends At Vintage Diving in Turkiye estimate was manufactured in 1971-1972. Come to our vintage dive get together in Monterey next month and take a look.
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Post by SeaRat on Sept 12, 2017 19:54:15 GMT -8
Vance,
I personally won't do any such modification on my Snark III. The mods I've dove are internal, intended to give the venturi a better lift than the origital, as the original venturi shoots out and hits the diaphragm too, thus cancelling some of its effects. I don't like the esthetics of the rotated design, as it is not what the manufacturer intended, and gains only an inch or so of water pressure, if any (depending upon the diver's position).
I've looked at the exhaust leaking quite thoroughly, and it has to do with the diameter of that huge mushroom, and not the orientation of the regulator body. Since this exhaust in centered, it would not matter whether the body is oriented or not. However, if in a strictly vertical position, no matter the body orientation, the regulator will leak a bit due to the difference between the cracking effort (about half an inch, or 1.5 cm, of water pressure) and the radius of the mushroom valve. Since this radius distance is greater than the cracking effort, the difference between the water pressure at the edge of the mushroom valve and the cracking effort will slightly open the valve.. So if this is a concern, I wouldn't worry about it. In a normal diving position, the exhaust is below the diaphragm, and it will not leak from cracking effort differentials with the exhaust.
John
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Post by vance on Sept 13, 2017 8:01:34 GMT -8
Another problem surfaces: The mount for one of the levers is attached to the rim of the middle can part. Lothar's blog shows a fix by making a new part out of brass (I think I'd use stainless). Seems to be a lot of trouble to go to. Rotating the bottom can is the simplest alternative. I think this will all be moot when I finish my adapter so single stage regs fit on the Y valve with a sh first stage. Actually, it will allow most any DH reg to fit along with a single hose first stage.
I will still do the LP mod, fitting an adapter and tee to the prv outlet. That, and an hp ported tank valve will give the Snark all the necessaries.
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