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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2018 18:04:13 GMT -8
Several years back, some of y'all were discussing the various homemade tools for visual inspection of your tanks, plus cleaning with a homemade wire whisk device, with a drill.
For the life of me, I can not find those discussions.
So......
What is the best and cheapest way to VIP your own tanks today? I don't really want to buy 100' of LED light rope or spend $50 on a tank whisk.........
Haven't looked at mine in several years (do my own compressing now) and figure I might need to see if they are damaged with rust or not.
Ol' Mossback.
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Post by fishnbeer on Jan 27, 2018 18:41:27 GMT -8
To see inside my tanks I use a two cell AA Mini Mag light attached to a string. Just screw off the front lens cap and the light shines 360 degrees. It's small enough to fit thru a 3/4" neck but I'm not sure about a 1/2" neck opening. Works ok for me so far.
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Post by duckbill on Jan 27, 2018 19:48:46 GMT -8
Several years? Probably the best way would be to shine a light into the neck in a darkened room. If you see any light shining through from the outside, it doesn't pass.
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Post by nikeajax on Jan 27, 2018 20:03:02 GMT -8
Several years? Probably the best way would be to shine a light into the neck in a darkened room. If you see any light shining through from the outside, it doesn't pass. SNORT! JB
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2018 10:14:12 GMT -8
Several years? Probably the best way would be to shine a light into the neck in a darkened room. If you see any light shining through from the outside, it doesn't pass. Terry, ya made me laugh. Needed that........but you're not helpin!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2018 16:50:04 GMT -8
Ok guys, I found the post I was looking for. Terry, it was yours on ScubaBoard. Thanks for all the help?
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Post by duckbill on Jan 28, 2018 17:02:16 GMT -8
Ok guys, I found the post I was looking for. Terry, it was yours on ScubaBoard. Thanks for all the help? It must be an old one. I haven't been to SB in some time. Could you post the link? I may have some revisions or additions I've learned since that may be helpful.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2018 18:47:13 GMT -8
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Post by duckbill on Jan 28, 2018 19:40:02 GMT -8
Ah! I remember that thread. I also remember now why I stopped visiting scubaboard. It seems the site hasn't changed much, in that it is so loaded with c**p that my newer computer with high speed internet STILL came to a standstill while visiting it just now!
Any way, truth be told I ended up buying a commercial whip after all. It works better than the steel cables. But, you asked about visual inspection, and hopefully the subject of a whip is moot.
Years ago I soldered a cord to a short piece of rope light, and taped the juncture. I make sure to insert the light into the cylinder past the splice before I plug it in, and hold my breath when I do so in case a bare wire is touching the cylinder wall. So far, so good, but something better than tape for insulation would be nice. It is, after all, a full 120 volts AC! The rope light works so-so, but it isn't really bright enough. I try to look down inside in a dark room while shining a flashlight inside. That doesn't get me a good view up around near the neck, though. I store my cylinders vertically, so I assume any significant corrosion would be nearer the bottom. It's best to have a light near the bottom, so any pitting shows up better as the light casts shadows from an angle.
My suggestion is that if you see red when you look inside, then worry about whipping or tumbling. Then take them and have someone who is properly trained evaluate whether there is enough harmful corrosion to warrant taking them out of service. Most of my cylinders have a touch of "immersion rust", which is an even, light rust film. This is due to the rinse at hydro, and in no way harms the cylinder. I can see the walls are still smooth and shiny, not dull or rough or deep red.
A long time ago I had taken a cylinder to a scuba shop and the owner looked inside and said the cylinder was "condemned" since he saw red inside- what he referred to as "bloom". I knew there was nothing wrong with the cylinder, and that was confirmed by another shop. It turned out that the owner of the first shop had tanks hydroed by a guy that blasted the insides of the cylinders with garnet to make them perfectly clean. So, that was all this shop owner knew, and any red to him meant "fail". Any one can do that! Apparently he was never trained to tell the difference between a cylinder with mild, harmless corrosion, versus one that was corrosion damaged, let alone able to determine how much pitting would be acceptable or not.
My point being, look inside and see if there is any corrosion. If there is and you're not sure, play it safe and have an expert take a look. It does take training to make a determination on borderline cases, and most of us laymen wouldn't even know what would be borderline to begin with. So far, though, I've only had one tank that ended up with water in it that just needed a tumble to get back in service. I caught it soon, and I'm pretty sure it was fresh water from rinsing the tanks (http://vintagescuba.proboards.com/thread/2900/water-tank-help-brainstorming).
I suggest storing cylinders vertically.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2018 15:13:17 GMT -8
Ah! I remember that thread. I also remember now why I stopped visiting scubaboard. It seems the site hasn't changed much, in that it is so loaded with c**p that my newer computer with high speed internet STILL came to a standstill while visiting it just now! Any way, truth be told I ended up buying a commercial whip after all. It works better than the steel cables. But, you asked about visual inspection, and hopefully the subject of a whip is moot. Years ago I soldered a cord to a short piece of rope light, and taped the juncture. I make sure to insert the light into the cylinder past the splice before I plug it in, and hold my breath when I do so in case a bare wire is touching the cylinder wall. So far, so good, but something better than tape for insulation would be nice. It is, after all, a full 120 volts AC! The rope light works so-so, but it isn't really bright enough. I try to look down inside in a dark room while shining a flashlight inside. That doesn't get me a good view up around near the neck, though. I store my cylinders vertically, so I assume any significant corrosion would be nearer the bottom. It's best to have a light near the bottom, so any pitting shows up better as the light casts shadows from an angle. My suggestion is that if you see red when you look inside, then worry about whipping or tumbling. Then take them and have someone who is properly trained evaluate whether there is enough harmful corrosion to warrant taking them out of service. Most of my cylinders have a touch of "immersion rust", which is an even, light rust film. This is due to the rinse at hydro, and in no way harms the cylinder. I can see the walls are still smooth and shiny, not dull or rough or deep red. A long time ago I had taken a cylinder to a scuba shop and the owner looked inside and said the cylinder was "condemned" since he saw red inside- what he referred to as "bloom". I knew there was nothing wrong with the cylinder, and that was confirmed by another shop. It turned out that the owner of the first shop had tanks hydroed by a guy that blasted the insides of the cylinders with garnet to make them perfectly clean. So, that was all this shop owner knew, and any red to him meant "fail". Any one can do that! Apparently he was never trained to tell the difference between a cylinder with mild, harmless corrosion, versus one that was corrosion damaged, let alone able to determine how much pitting would be acceptable or not. My point being, look inside and see if there is any corrosion. If there is and you're not sure, play it safe and have an expert take a look. It does take training to make a determination on borderline cases, and most of us laymen wouldn't even know what would be borderline to begin with. So far, though, I've only had one tank that ended up with water in it that just needed a tumble to get back in service. I caught it soon, and I'm pretty sure it was fresh water from rinsing the tanks (http://vintagescuba.proboards.com/thread/2900/water-tank-help-brainstorming). I suggest storing cylinders vertically. Thanks, I store mine vertically as well. My concern was any moisture getting in by using my old, single filter compressor. I use to have and will get another dentist mirror to view the top walls, if the thing will fit inside a 1/2 neck. I have two, one twin 38 and one 72, that are 1/2". My other tanks, 2 50cu aluminum, another twin 38 and a old 72, all are 3/4.
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Post by waldenwalrus on Jan 30, 2018 5:17:33 GMT -8
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Post by waldenwalrus on Jan 30, 2018 5:49:08 GMT -8
I have another related question to steel tank inspections and epoxy coatings. Three dive shops had different opinions.
At some point in the early 60's US Divers (at least) epoxy coated the inside of their tanks. When I started diving again I brought my 67 in to get hydroed and was told it wasn't worth it because it needed to be blasted or tumbled first before he would send it out for hydro and that would cost more than a used steel tank with a fresh hydro. Unless I had a sentimental attachment to the tank, get a new tank. This had a brown colored epoxy.
I was doing some electrical work for somebody and he was digging out his cellar. He had a steel 1962 USD and it had a snow white epoxy in it an looked as white as a blizzard. A different shop had no problem with that, and hydroed and inspected it, and that is still in use.
I have also seen a cut away of a tank a customer brought into a shop because it was leaking. The LDS said he needed a new tank and cut the tank in two stem to bottom and you could see how porous the tank was because water got under the epoxy and rotted the tank out. It was the brown epoxy so it would be hard to tell from the rust.
What situations are you folks finding with the epoxy tanks. I would agree at least with the brown epoxy, they should be blasted, but with the white epoxy I would expect that any rust or pitting would show up like a sore thumb.
what experience are you folks doing with these tanks you have.
John
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Post by nikeajax on Jan 30, 2018 8:34:45 GMT -8
WalrusJohn, as I recall, it's actually a vinyl coating: at least it is in my Healthways and all the other tanks I've heard of. If you can do so, just leave it alone: it ain't hurtin' nobuddy! As far as the integrity of the tank goes, unless you see blistering/high spot, it's good: any rusting should cause such blistering because the oxygen molecules are attaching themselves to the iron molecules and thus taking up more space than previously... OK, now that I've said that, I'm sure I'm gunna get guff for it! Oh-well... JB
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Post by waldenwalrus on Jan 30, 2018 11:06:32 GMT -8
no guff from me but I cut my 1967 in half (only to find it was fine) and it seemed to be bonded pretty good to the tank, so I think it was epoxy. You would think USD would have the sense to use something other than rust colored epoxy (or vinyl) on the inside.
BTW my local dive shop does have a few late 50's and early 60's tanks sitting around, some with the bushings and I thought there was a North Hill there with an original paint scheme. He has to reduce floor space so they may end up in the scrap pile. If anybody has a tank they are looking for I will rummage around to see what he has. I imagine most of your LDS's may have similar piles.
The Walrus
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Post by nikeajax on Jan 30, 2018 12:30:34 GMT -8
We had a discussion a few years back about these tanks: people will invent all sorts of horror stories so that someone like you will do just what you did: grumble, grumble grumble... and thus needing to buy a brand spankin' new one that the dealer just happens to have: gosh, what an amazing coincidence, huh? The most bestest one though, wuz... because one of the chemicals used to make vinyl is very, very toxic and is highly carcinogenic, the vinyl itself is too. Our other John, with his industrial safety background, killed this one dead in its tracks: said chemical becomes inert! JB
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