|
Post by vance on Sept 29, 2018 14:49:59 GMT -8
I thought it was time for a new Dacor double hose thread, since John's is now 13 pages and is going all over the place! I've been working on several Dacors, including an R-1 or 2, a C-2 Clipper with lp taps in the body, an R-4 with a different cover, and a C-3. I wanted to post some pictures of the C-2 with a safe second and bc inflator mounted. It is really simple to tap into the LP air on the Dacor. Too bad it was done so badly on my new acquisition! This is it before I got it. I'm not certain it ever worked, since it leaked pretty badly when I hooked it up. I didn't try to get it working though. It has 5 holes bored into the body, but only three are drilled into the LP side. 1 is completely botched. I don't know why 5, but I'm thinking it is because he screwed some of them up. Execution is not great here, but it is a very workable idea with proper machining!
|
|
|
Post by SeaRat on Sept 29, 2018 15:27:58 GMT -8
Dacor could so easily have made a double hose with both LP and HP ports, that I've wondered why they didn't. Yes, this is a poor job, but you could probably help it by getting that piece re-chromed, and filling in the two botched ones with epoxy. Then you'd have a pretty neat regulator. Since my original thread is pretty well buried, here is a photo of me in Clear Lake in about 1973 with my Dacor regulator. This regulator started life as a R-2, and I upgraded it to an R-4 by buying the R-4 parts and converting it. I had thought of trying to give it LP ports, but not being a machinist or having those available, was unable to figure out how to do that. But in my configuration here, I didn't need a LP port (no BCD being worn). I finally took the lower lever on this R-4, straightened it out, and used it that way (though the flow was somewhat erratic), as the lever with the "U" built in actually made it harder breathing as the lever was pushed downward; it slid toward the fulcrum, and not away as is the case in the USD Mistral double lever setup. I sent it in with a Dacor representative, and he gave it to their R&D people. But rather than doing anything, or saying even "Thanks," they said they had lost it, and sent me a Dacor Pacer regulator as a replacement (single hose for a double hose). I wasn't impressed, but I think they didn't want to either endorse my modification or let me have it back for use. John PS, the older thread starts here: vintagescuba.proboards.com/thread/2459/dacor-model-original-unit-breathIt holds quite a bit of information too.
|
|
|
Post by technidiver on Sept 29, 2018 16:12:40 GMT -8
Is this thread the start of the rise of the Dacor DH regs?
The modifications on the Dacor DH look interesting, something I could never do. However it's very cool. Out of the Dacor DH regs, which one is the best performing?
TD
|
|
|
Post by nikeajax on Sept 29, 2018 16:14:21 GMT -8
Hey Phil, wanna play sometime this October? This is a horrible time for my wife: she has to travel, travel, travel... We can play with skuubah geer an' kompewterz: just got an old Acer from '93 and it runs Windows-3.1 with a super-giant-huge 128-meg HDD... truly bad @$$ SNORT! JB
|
|
|
Post by nikeajax on Sept 29, 2018 16:24:10 GMT -8
Out of the Dacor DH regs, which one is the best performing? TD R-4, C-3, C-3-N and are all basically the same: Phil does the C-2 use the same second stage as these later regs? The C-2 and C-3 have the cleanest design: they were called "Clippers". I'm sure they could have just as easily been called stripper too, but I believe it was that they were clipping/stripping-parts-off for the least complexity... JB
|
|
|
Post by vance on Sept 29, 2018 16:49:39 GMT -8
Out of the Dacor DH regs, which one is the best performing? TD Phil does the C-2 use the same second stage as these later regs? It looks like it. I did notice a difference between the LP seat carrier on the C-2 and the C-3. Can't remember exactly, but it does seem that there are differences. The R-1,2 with its glued-on lp seat is a hot mess. I hope I can get it to seal...
|
|
|
Post by SeaRat on Sept 29, 2018 17:31:27 GMT -8
Is this thread the start of the rise of the Dacor DH regs? The modifications on the Dacor DH look interesting, something I could never do. However it's very cool. Out of the Dacor DH regs, which one is the best performing? TD TD, The R-4 and all the C-3 have virtually the same first and second stages. There was a rumor of a R-4N that had a balanced first stage, but while advertised, no one has actually seen one. The last of the R-4 series had a duckbill exhaust, as did all the C-3 series, and these would be the best breathing regulators, as the double diaphragm produced quite a bit of internal turbulence in the exhaust air flow, and therefore harder breathing. The double diaphragm R-4 regulators never did pass the U.S. Navy Experimental Diving Unit's specs on exhaust effort. I did an experiment some years ago to try to illustrate the difference between the exhaust flow of a fluid (water) between the different models. I first used what I figured was the best of the duckbill designs, the original DA Aqualung's exhaust duckbill, with a flow of water. Note how the water virtually flows straight out the duckbill without interference. My Sportsways Hydro-Twin, with its fairly large (but not huge) mushroom valve shows considerable back-up of water flowing out the exhaust. My Dacor Dial-a-Breath, with the mushroom in the diaphragm, showed considerable backup of flow of water, which means more resistance to exhalation. The take-away from this is that the duckbill is a better design, as the air (or any fluid) doesn't have to make twists and turns to exit the regulator. This is especially important under heavy demand. John
|
|
|
Post by vance on Sept 30, 2018 15:38:47 GMT -8
So, for those who may not have any experience with the Dacor double hose regs, I thought I'd explain what is going on with the LP taps on my C-2 body. Looking at the above picture, at the top is a hole with 2 small holes, one on each side. This is where the second stage mounts. (The other 5 holes around the outside perimeter are the can/lever plate mounting holes.) In the center is a smooth machined open area above the first stage hole threads. This is a reservoir for intermediate pressure air. The 4 holes in the groove are taps for supplying intermediate pressure air to the second stage (top hole), and to the new LP ports for the desired peripherals. It appears to be a very workable method to add functionality to the Dacor DH regulators. A competent machinist could easily do a proper job of it. I'm not sure of placement, but I think two ports positioned at 12 and 3 o'clock would work well. A three way swivel adapter at the 12 o'clock port should cover a safe second and bc inflator. Any ideas on this?
|
|
|
Post by crabbyjim on Oct 5, 2018 13:50:36 GMT -8
Can lp ports be added to any, two stage scuba regulator? If so, why didn’t they?
|
|
|
Post by nikeajax on Oct 5, 2018 15:14:33 GMT -8
CJ, no, not really: the Dacor was a unique design... As to why they didn't, well the same reason why only Waterlung had multi-ports on both their DH's and SH's: no one was thinkin' ahead. According to Jim Steele, who personally knew Sam Davis, the Dacor engineers went to Detroit to study automotive patents: if you've ever taken a carburetor apart, a scuba reg and a carb have a whole ton in common. The Dacor regs are a little bit like a fuel pump though with that huge-big main HP-diaphragm. BTW, they're also like a seltzer-bottle too: JB
|
|
|
Post by vance on Oct 5, 2018 21:15:32 GMT -8
Can lp ports be added to any, two stage scuba regulator? If so, why didn’t they? I don't think they saw the need early on. No one used peripherals like safe seconds and bc vests and they didn't use SPGs. Some early tank valves have an HP port for an SPG. As to adding LP ports to other DH regs, there are probably ways to do so. The DA and RAM have a hookah port you can adapt, the Snark III has the OPRV port you can use, and I suppose if you work hard enough, you could figure out how to tap into most any 2 stage regulator.
|
|
|
Post by crabbyjim on Oct 6, 2018 8:34:44 GMT -8
Well, I started in 1970 and my first regulator was a single hose with at least an HP port. The Scuba Star First Stage appears in the 1961 Healthways catalogue and it has an HP port. The overpressure relieve valve can function as an LP port (with some limitations).
|
|
|
Post by nikeajax on Oct 6, 2018 9:37:59 GMT -8
CJ, I just looked at my Scuba Star, first generation too: no HP-port, and neither does the blue one I got from you The SS's would need a tank valve with a HP-port: The Scubairs on the other hand did have a HP-port: Way back when it was about skill, knowledge and confidence in your gear: those were your safety features JB
|
|
|
Post by snark3 on Oct 6, 2018 9:48:13 GMT -8
Some of the old Scubapro valves had a crude pressure gauge built into the valve. In order to read the gauge while diving you'd have to be a giraffe.
|
|
|
Post by snark3 on Oct 6, 2018 10:14:02 GMT -8
JB- That's a nice looking Scubair you have there. It looks a little older than mine, the serial # on mine is 11774. Mine was in the "box of junk" I bought, I was told it was NIB. It looks to me to be used but I have the box and original paperwork.
|
|