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Post by vance on Dec 20, 2018 15:10:11 GMT -8
Phil, very much looking forward to what you do: have you talked with Jim Steele about putting some Dacor guts in them to make them balanced? JB Hey, JB, I'm not following.... This thread is allover the place. Pls elaborate. Which guts into what first stage?
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Post by nikeajax on Dec 20, 2018 15:36:49 GMT -8
I'm talking about finding some seats and bonnets from some other reg. and putting them into a Clipper, etc. to make it a balanced regulator...
JB
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Post by vance on Dec 21, 2018 19:14:06 GMT -8
Hmmm. One would need to do some measuring and comparing. Maybe some Conshelf parts?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2018 20:43:37 GMT -8
I'm talking about finding some seats and bonnets from some other reg. and putting them into a Clipper, etc. to make it a balanced regulator... JB I tried that back in 2010.........using the original 2nd stage off a R4......but had a new 1st stage main body machined that held the USD conshelf/titan 1st stage springs, etc. Problem was the Dacor 2nd stage and the lever were worthless. Breathed hard. A different type 2nd stage similar to the Dacor that allowed a USD style lever would be better, but I shelved that project to work on the MK3.
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Post by SeaRat on Dec 21, 2018 22:57:07 GMT -8
I'm talking about finding some seats and bonnets from some other reg. and putting them into a Clipper, etc. to make it a balanced regulator... JB I tried that back in 2010.........using the original 2nd stage off a R4......but had a new 1st stage main body machined that held the USD conshelf/titan 1st stage springs, etc. Problem was the Dacor 2nd stage and the lever were worthless. Breathed hard. A different type 2nd stage similar to the Dacor that allowed a USD style lever would be better, but I shelved that project to work on the MK3. I'm still diving my Mossback Mk 3. It is a great regulator. I used it on my first saltwater dive into Yaquina Bay last summer, and it performed flawlessly. I haven't changed my Dacor regulators to try for a LP outlet, and probably won't. It simply doesn't perform well enough for me to make the effort (and I don't know how to machine things). My emphasis is going to be on my Sea Turtle Dolphin swimming technique in the next year. But here are my Dacor regs (not all of them, but three generations): John
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Post by tomcatpc on Dec 22, 2018 10:01:04 GMT -8
Dacor...my next frontier! But then again I still need to get into Sportsways like I said I would last Summer... Mark
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Post by technidiver on Dec 22, 2018 10:31:51 GMT -8
Dacor...my next frontier! But then again I still need to get into Sportsways like I said I would last Summer... Mark I'm in the same boat as you Mark, all this talk makes me want to dive into Dacor. See what I did there? TD
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Post by SeaRat on Dec 22, 2018 18:18:45 GMT -8
We talked a bit about the Mossback Mk 3, and here is mine with a tangle of my float line. I was diving in heavy current, and it wrapped around the regulator yolk and scuba manifold. I had to get out to untangle it, and did that rather than cut the line in the water (it wasn't a dangerous situation). The nice thing about the Dacor double hose regulators is that all you need is a screwdriver, a pair of pliers, and circlip pliers to service it. This is by design. They are about the easiest regulators to service you will ever find. For the early ones, you cannot even try to measure the IP. The R-4 and Clipper allow that, but it isn't really necessary. Note the non-standard stainless screws, which I picked up at a hardware store. Now, we think we're the first to do the LP line on a Dacor double hose regulator. But Fred Roberts, in his book, Basic Scuba, published this photo of a Dacor double hose regulator, and look at what mods were made to it: One mod was a line from the ambient pressure in the can to the camera housing. But the other appears to be a LP line (going off to the left in the photo)! I thought you'd like to see these. John
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Post by vance on Dec 23, 2018 7:04:35 GMT -8
John,
You say that the R-4 has provision for checking IP. How is that done? I'm making an adapter that replaces the second stage, but is there some other way? Also, an adapter that replaces the second stage nozzle on the early ones would allow IP to be checked. I don't remember if the old model diaphragm is adjustable though. Shims?
Edit: I just read about your method of setting the IP blind by adjusting until it leaks and backing off. Also, I read that JB was planning to make an adapter. Did you ever make one Jay?
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Post by vance on Dec 23, 2018 7:37:43 GMT -8
Here's a tip for those who need 1 1/4" hoses for their Dacor DHs: Dan's www.vintagescubasupply.com/hoses.html unseamed hoses for the Trieste are a very tight fit on the USD 1 1/2" mouthpieces. They fit well on the Dacor mouthpiece. And they're a good price!
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Post by SeaRat on Dec 23, 2018 8:20:07 GMT -8
John, You say that the R-4 has provision for checking IP. How is that done? I'm making an adapter that replaces the second stage, but is there some other way? Also, an adapter that replaces the second stage nozzle on the early ones would allow IP to be checked. I don't remember if the old model diaphragm is adjustable though. Shims? Edit: I just read about your method of setting the IP blind by adjusting until it leaks and backing off. Also, I read that JB was planning to make an adapter. Did you ever make one Jay? Dacor made a gauge that fit into the LP nozzle area, and I believe it was an O-ring fitting that screwed into the screw holes for the LP nozzle. I never did use it. John
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2018 11:32:07 GMT -8
I stated earlier that I tried to convert a dacor back in 2010. I found the preliminary drawings of the 2nd stage that I never had built. They do not have too many dims. One would have to match up the Dacor 2nd stage dims to these drawings.......when designing the Mk3 I chose not to make a new 2nd stage but instead used the old USD 2nd stage design like Luis did with his two creations......however, the 2nd stage cone, a separate machined part that screwed in and then soldered to prevent leakage was adapted.......If anyone wants them, PM me as I will email......forgot my passwords for the two photo storage sites and just not interested in doing battle with computers to regain my passwords......Maybe these will give one some ideas.
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Post by vance on Dec 23, 2018 14:04:20 GMT -8
Michael, PM sent.
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Post by vance on Dec 23, 2018 14:12:16 GMT -8
Doesn't seem like too much upside to converting the first stage to be balanced w/o doing something to improve the demand lever system. Doing that would probably also require reworking the funky 2nd stage.
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Post by SeaRat on Dec 23, 2018 16:32:12 GMT -8
Doesn't seem like too much upside to converting the first stage to be balanced w/o doing something to improve the demand lever system. Doing that would probably also require reworking the funky 2nd stage. I worked on the lever system years ago (1980s), and it resulted in me loosing my converted R-4 regulator to Dacor. I sent them my regulator through their rep which had a straightened secondary lever. The primary lever (which I'm defining as the lower one, which has the spring which holds the LP air seat) interfaces with the secondary lever. But that secondary lever has a large "U" bend in it, and it is this bend that causes problems. Why? Because it travels down the primary lever toward the fulcrum, thus decreasing the leverage as the levers are depressed, resulting in inhalation that becomes harder. Mine had straightened that lever out (albeit by pounding it on my vice in my frustration to try to straighten it out, which made for a rather bumpy lever), and in pool tests seemed to work pretty well. Here are some photos to illustrate this problem: Note this large "U" in the secondary lever. Although the levers are not in complete focus, you can see the bend where the secondary lever hits the primary lever. As the lever is depressed, that bend slides toward the fulcrum, decreasing the leverage and resulting in harder breathing. In contrast, the lever system of the Mistral works in the opposite direction, whereby the primary lever slides toward the fulcrum of the secondary lever, thus increasing the leverage and decreasing the breathing resistance. The "funky" second stage can be improved by using metal tape to cover parts of the orifice, thus increasing the Venturi somewhat. I should also disclose that this is the inside of a Clipper, Model C-3, before I did any renovation on it. I believe that I've now bent the levers so that they are a bit better performing than in their original orientation. I've had this unit, both as a Clipper and as a Double Diaphragm R-4, in the water a number of times since, and it performs rather well (but not as well as a Mistral at low pressure). John PS, Dacor never sent me back my converted (from an R-3) R-4 regulator, and instead sent me a prototype Pacer regulator (with drilled rather than stamped exhaust port holes). That's how I got my first Pacer regulator. They claimed that they had "lost" my regulator. PS1, Here is the Dacor Clipper once I had it all cleaned up and ready for use.
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