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Post by vance on Dec 28, 2018 14:34:32 GMT -8
Here's a picture of Eben's new adapter. I call it the "Herman's Pie-in-the-Sky Adapter", because I followed his idea and made a pressed-on retainer. I haven't gone as far as to add the reliefs for screw retaining o-rings, but I did relieve the hole for the adapter in the retainer so it fits flush.
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Post by vance on Dec 28, 2018 15:48:23 GMT -8
'Just a small note here, but you don't want the Dacor R-1 or R-2. These are the very early models, and the nozzle is at the 3:00 position relative to the intake horn. You actually want the Dacor R-3 Dial-A-Breath regulator, which is their third generation, and has the nozzle right adjacent to the intake horn, so the air is deflected right down the intake hose. This creates a Venturi effect, which some divers did not like, so there is a vane to deflect air, essentially making the regulator harder to breath. Your diagram does not reflect this change, and also (if you look closely) show the 3:00 position of the seat. The R-4 retained the "Dial-A-Breath feature for a number of years, but updated the LP seat design and lever system. It was possible to completely update a R-3 to a R-4 by buying parts, which I did in the late 1970s. That means the LP hole was the same throughout the lives of the various models. John Thanks for that info, John. I didn't know there was an R-3, but I think that's probably the one I have. I've taken so many Dacors apart and reassembled them in the last day or so, I just don't have the energy to take my early one apart to see if it's an R-2 or 3. I know it isn't an R-1 because of the label. I'm not a big fan of Dacor regs. I know they have some great regs, esp the single hosers, but for some reason they don't call out to me like Healthways, Sportsways, DivAir, Mistrals (both kinds), and a lot of other single stage double-hosers. All I want from Dacors is to mod them. To be fair, they do have a couple of really awesome attributes: 1. Because of their smaller diameter, you can mount them on a "Y" tank valve with select single hose regulators, which will give you all the peripherals you might want. This is huge!! 2. You can easily tap into the LP side on the DH regs to add functionality. This is also huge!! So, why don't you think they're the cat's pajamas, Vance? Harder breathing than some others? Ugly? I didn't have one as a kid? Stiff hoses? Dunno.
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Post by technidiver on Dec 28, 2018 16:09:47 GMT -8
Phil I'm stuck on the fence how I feel about Dacor regs. They have a simple look/style, and use screws to secure the bodies together on the DH regs. Simple yet effective. I picture Dacor regs as being workhorses. Not too fancy or stylish, and just effective enough that you wouldn't want to swap the reg out for a new one. Jay mentioned that you could modify an Olympic 400/800 in the same way that a Titan II can be made into a Trieste. Have you tried that? It might be the best Dacor Double Hose TD
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Post by vance on Dec 28, 2018 16:34:57 GMT -8
The Dacor balanced 400 requires extensive machine work to convert it to DH. Herman has done this very successfully, but it is beyond my skill level at this point. I don't mean to leave anyone out who contributed to this, but don't remember all the details. I would love to try it, but I'm not there yet.
The cool thing about the Titan II is that it was the same first stage as the Trieste, and had a plug installed in the 2nd stage port. All you have to do is install a second stage (all, heh!) and fit some DH cans. I did this by "realigning" an HPR valve (not for amateurs) and adding some FX cans from TheScubaMuseum.com.
USD and Voit used a different thread pitch for their second stages, so they a NOT interchangeable. To get around this I am attempting to machine my own second stage LP body for the Titan II. Fun project, but it points out my limitations fo'sho'.
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Post by vance on Dec 29, 2018 16:29:47 GMT -8
I spent part of the day making another "Herman's Pie-in-the-Sky" IP adapter. This one will be mine. Not sure I want to make more, but I have 2 working adapters up for grabs! LMK if you want to call dibs.
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Post by herman on Dec 30, 2018 5:45:37 GMT -8
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Post by technidiver on Dec 30, 2018 8:51:24 GMT -8
That was an excellent read! Herman, would you ever consider making another? Just wondering. TD
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Post by vance on Dec 30, 2018 10:45:41 GMT -8
I was looking at your Dacor conversion (with much admiration, BTW), and had a thought: you threaded your 2nd stage orifice and sealed it with an o-ring. I think the machining process would be simplified a lot by using a Sportsways style metal seat that is simply pressed in the bore. Here's one: There's an o-ring around the middle. I assume that your first attempt which resulted in a ruined first stage was based on an HPR 2nd stage body which turned out to be too large in diameter?
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Post by herman on Dec 30, 2018 13:00:06 GMT -8
TD, no I don't intend to make another one. It was a lot of work and I have another project with Luis coming up that is going to take some time.
Phil, you can't just press the seat in because the higher pressure is behind it so it would just be pushed out. It has to be secured some how. The reason I messed up the first stage was just because I did not measure correctly and cut too deep.
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Post by snark3 on Dec 30, 2018 15:39:58 GMT -8
Herman PM sent
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Post by SeaRat on Dec 30, 2018 20:17:06 GMT -8
I just found my copy of The Journal of Diving History, Second Quarter 2015, Volme 23, Number 83. This issue is significant to our discussion as it has the most extensive article in existence concerning Dacor double hose regulators. Titled simply "Dacor," by Ed LaRochelle it details he development of these regulators, and includes the Clipper series too.
John
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Post by crabbyjim on Dec 31, 2018 6:41:02 GMT -8
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Post by SeaRat on Dec 31, 2018 17:46:07 GMT -8
Here is another site, the Rubicon site, which houses a lot of the U.S. Navy Experimental Diving Unit documents; this one is about the Dacor Dial-A-Breath regulator, and details why the Navy did not accept it, and why Dacor developed the R-4. archive.rubicon-foundation.org/xmlui/handle/123456789/3844Here is the study on the Dacor R-4 regulator (which also was not accepted by the U.S. Navy): archive.rubicon-foundation.org/xmlui/handle/123456789/4088You'll have to click on the links at these sites to download these documents. I just finished evaluating the breathing of my Dacor R-2, with its 90 degree offset from the intake tube, and the breathing was not good. I then took the hoses off the R-2 and put them onto my R-3 Dial-A-Breath, and the breathing was noticeably better. But it did not measure up to my memory of it as a boy, when I could breath on the Dial-A-Breath and get it to free flow. I think this slightly harder breathing than my memory from over 50 years ago is because the spring is now weaker (or maybe my memory is also weaker ). Neither are as good as the R-4, which I also tested recently and have been diving too. But, to put this in perspective, at the same time U.S. Divers Company came out with their Overpressure Breathing single stage regulator, and it is much, much better than the Dacor R-4. This was the predisesor of the USD Mistral, and in fact Mr. Fred Roberts said in Basic Scuba that the Mistral "approached the breathing characteristics of the Overpressure Breathing regulator, but withoutthe downside of air gushing into the diver's mouth. John
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Post by vance on Jan 11, 2019 19:00:26 GMT -8
I have a second, partial R-3. It's missing a few parts, including the second stage/orifice. I have been working on making one, which isn't very difficult, except I can't quite get the thread pitch. This seems to be off the common sizes. Edit: see below. It's also missing an HP valve to body washer, an HP lifter (kind of an HP pin, but way different), and maybe a couple other things. I'm also contemplating a redesigned 2nd stage for these. It might require boring out the LP/2nd stage hole in order to insert something a bit more sophisticated than the original orifice/demand lever with seat combination.
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Post by vance on Jan 13, 2019 22:24:47 GMT -8
Here's finished second stage seat for the R-3. It works! I installed one in my functional R-3, and it seals up fine. Ended up the thread pitch is common: it was just that my sample had poorly cut threads and wouldn't thread onto a die all the way down. This one is for another project reg that's now one step closer to being complete. Somebody got a BIG assortment of Dacor parts on eBay tonight. If by chance the winning bidder is reading this, please PM me! You've got a couple of bits I could use!
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