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Post by Fibonacci on May 2, 2019 17:51:01 GMT -8
I've finally found a late model Snark III DH reg with HP port in very good condition, but I'd like to update it with accessories such as LP inflator/octo plus a HP gauge. Seems the HP port is M10 x 1.0 with the Metric version of an O-Ring Boss (ORB) Not sure what size o-rings fit but the port recess is 10.45mm dia The port plug o-ring groove diameter is 7.8mm x 2.0mm wide The currently installed o-ring is rather distorted so not sure if it was OEM. I can find an M10 x 1.0 to 7/16" x 20 UNF ORB adaptor, but it is just a standard M10 thread and would need shortening and an o-ring groove cut: www.fittings.space/gtm2u-m10x1m-u07x20fFor best hose routing, I'd like to leave the OPRV in place and put a 3/8" x 24 UNF ORB adaptor into the blanked off LP cover. I believe Nemrod made a single LP port adaptor for the LP blank off cover. Just wondering if anyone knew of one of these or maybe someone making up a multiport 3/8" LP adaptor to fit?
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Post by SeaRat on May 2, 2019 18:05:53 GMT -8
This has been done in the past. I don't know much about this photo, only that I put it into Photobucket some years ago as an example of how to get both LP and HP outlets with the Nemrod Snark III. John
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Post by snark3 on May 3, 2019 13:28:52 GMT -8
Fibonacci- On Page 2 of the general discussion here, there is a thread "Early Snark 3 rebuild" There is allot of information in that thread about adapters. Phil (vance) and I have both made adapters and we used 2 different approaches to do this. Keep in mind that the Snark 3 MUST HAVE an OPV in it as its an upstream second, also remember the Snark 3 runs unusually high IP. I use Sherwood Shadow + octos on all my double hose regs the IP in the Snark 3 causes the Shadow + to freeflow.
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Post by Fibonacci on May 3, 2019 14:20:50 GMT -8
Thanks guys... some food for thought!
Yes I know about the need for an OPV in the Snark which is why I'd prefer to leave the standard factory one as-is and look at ports out of the LP cover. Is the thread M18x1.0 or M18x1.5mm? Most concepts seem to be a single port with 3/8" x 24 UNF ORB + a 2 way or 3 way swivel adaptor... which sticks out quite far to me.
What are your thoughts on a slim line adaptor, pentagonal or hex headed with five/six 3/8" LP ports that could directly connect to a inflator octo etc? Like a smaller Snark IV adaptor? Depending on orientation to the tank valve one port would always be blocked. Or is the swivel head a more useful feature even if it does stick out a bit? I'm thinking if slimmed enough it could also work if the cans were inverted...
On suitable octos, for me at least the Australian Sea Hornet Command Air regulator was designed for 10BAR or 145psi IP... it will work OK at higher IP.
I connected up the unrestored Snark III to a couple of tanks just to see how it may go... the reg seemed nearly new very few dives... all rubber parts supple. NO leaks at all! Breathed very well.
Checking on the Magnehelic:
Std Nemrod diaphragm, hoses, mouthpiece. Tank pressure 115 BAR (1668 psi) 1.1" With VDH silicone diaphragm 0.9"
Std Nemrod diaphragm, VDH Kraken hoses and DSV. Tank pressure 115 BAR (1668 psi) 1.1"
Std Nemrod diaphragm, VDH Kraken hoses and DSV. Tank pressure 215 BAR (3118 psi) 0.8"
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Post by vance on May 3, 2019 16:13:59 GMT -8
As John pointed out, this has all been explored before. Seamless made a port adapter that screws into the LP cover, but they are rare and expensive when you can find one. However, they are relatively easy to make. I have made several, and they work very well with a 3 way splitter. Another viable method is to replace the OPRV with an adapter like this: They both require machining, but, while the LP port cover adapter is made from brass stock, the OPRV port adapter can be made from an automotive brake adapter, which may require less machine work depending on what you can find. The OPRV adapter only works acceptably, IMO, in the later Snarks with the HP port. This is because the OPRV hole is offset more on the later Silver models with the plain top can, so the adapter and 3 way will fit far lower down. The older models can be fitted with an OPRV adapter, but the splitter will have to sit high above the regulator body, which looks awkward and is a snag danger.
The LP plug is an M18x1 thread. The OPRV is an M10x 1, I believe.
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Post by vance on May 4, 2019 8:22:01 GMT -8
I've finally found a late model Snark III DH reg with HP port in very good condition, but I'd like to update it with accessories such as LP inflator/octo plus a HP gauge. Seems the HP port is M10 x 1.0 with the Metric version of an O-Ring Boss (ORB) Not sure what size o-rings fit but the port recess is 10.45mm dia The port plug o-ring groove diameter is 7.8mm x 2.0mm wide The currently installed o-ring is rather distorted so not sure if it was OEM. I can find an M10 x 1.0 to 7/16" x 20 UNF ORB adaptor, but it is just a standard M10 thread and would need shortening and an o-ring groove cut: www.fittings.space/gtm2u-m10x1m-u07x20fFor best hose routing, I'd like to leave the OPRV in place and put a 3/8" x 24 UNF ORB adaptor into the blanked off LP cover. I believe Nemrod made a single LP port adaptor for the LP blank off cover. Just wondering if anyone knew of one of these or maybe someone making up a multiport 3/8" LP adaptor to fit? So, I've had a little more time to think about your questions, and have a couple of comments. My Snark III Silvers both have removable HP valve bodies, not the cast-in valve bodies of the latest models. So yours might be different, if it is a cast-in model. The HP port on my Snark IIIs are 3/8" UNF, definitely not M10. A standard 3/8" SPG or 3/8" to 7/16" adapter works fine. The LP port plug thread is M18 x 1.0. Using this port for an adapter will limit your ability to position the regulator upside down, etc. Using the OPRV seems like it will allow more flexibility, but I haven't tried it and there may be other problems with changing the orientation of the regulator or the air horns. The OPRV hole is M10 x 1.0.
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Post by snark3 on May 4, 2019 14:37:08 GMT -8
I made an adapter for one of my Snarks that works off the OPV port. There is no machine work required, and all parts were found on "the bait" I removed the tiny rubber grommet under the OPV seat and everything else associated with the OPV. I went to my local Ace hardware and picked up a 3/8" rubber washer. This washer fits snug in there so there is no extrusion. The first adapter is (male)10mmx1 with a flat bottom so it seals with the rubber washer to 1/16 pipe (female). I then used a 1/16 pipe male to a 1/8" pipe male. third comes a 90 elbow 1/8" female to 1/4 pipe female. Finally a 1/4 pipe to 3/8-24 dive adapter. I know its allot of joints but once its sealed with teflon tape it works and it can be made a little tighter to give the desired angle.
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Post by SeaRat on May 4, 2019 14:43:11 GMT -8
I made an adapter for one of my Snarks that works off the OPV port. There is no machine work required, and all parts were found on "the bait" I removed the tiny rubber grommet under the OPV seat and everything else associated with the OPV. I went to my local Ace hardware and picked up a 3/8" rubber washer. This washer fits snug in there so there is no extrusion. The first adapter is (male)10mmx1 with a flat bottom so it seals with the rubber washer to 1/16 pipe (female). I then used a 1/16 pipe male to a 1/8" pipe male. third comes a 90 elbow 1/8" female to 1/4 pipe female. Finally a 1/4 pipe to 3/8-24 dive adapter. I know its allot of joints but once its sealed with teflon tape it works and it can be made a little tighter to give the desired angle. Skip, You now need another adapter to get three ports off this, so you can plug in the OPR valve and also have LP ports to use. The other option is to plug in a downstream second stage to act as an OPR valve. But you must have that OPR valve/mechanism in place before using this adaptation to the Snark III. John
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Post by snark3 on May 4, 2019 15:03:25 GMT -8
John, Currently it's setup with a 3-way adapter. one port has an aftermarket OPV and another has a Sherwood Shadow+ downstream octo and BC hose combination. I should have mentioned that....my bad
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Post by Fibonacci on May 4, 2019 16:22:18 GMT -8
So, I've had a little more time to think about your questions, and have a couple of comments. My Snark III Silvers both have removable HP valve bodies, not the cast-in valve bodies of the latest models. So yours might be different, if it is a cast-in model. The HP port on my Snark IIIs are 3/8" UNF, definitely not M10. A standard 3/8" SPG or 3/8" to 7/16" adapter works fine. The LP port plug thread is M18 x 1.0. Using this port for an adapter will limit your ability to position the regulator upside down, etc. Using the OPRV seems like it will allow more flexibility, but I haven't tried it and there may be other problems with changing the orientation of the regulator or the air horns. The OPRV hole is M10 x 1.0. Thanks for the update Vance...
Really appreciate you taking the time... saved me going down a completely wrong path re HP adaptors!
I haven't pulled this reg down fully yet (a few more DH regs in the line ahead of it... this DH stuff is very addictive!) to see if it has a cast in or removable HP valve bodies (is that part #2995 in the Snark III exploded view? While the Snark III's were apparently sold here in Australia, mine came from the US.
I did re-examine both the HP port and the OPRV threads using verniers and Metric/Imperial thread gauges under a magnifier. The HP port is on mine is indeed 3/8" x 24 UNF NOT M10 x 1.0!
So it makes sense that Nemrod would make the HP port hole to suit common US thread sizes if sold into that market.
A spare 3/8" to 7/16" adaptor fitted straight in, but the port depth is rather shallow so I had to try a couple of different adaptors I had lying around to find one that didn't bottom out before it fitted firmly against the upper spotface of the port aperture. Don't want o-ring extrusion! Connected up to a tank... no leaks. Will play about in 3D CAD and model up a M18x 1.0 single LP port adaptor... I think the larger diameter base will be more robust than the relatively slim M10 x 1.0 connector to the OPRV port (which was never meant to take a load if the LP hose snags up).
Will post back later.
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Post by vance on May 5, 2019 19:13:53 GMT -8
Will play about in 3D CAD and model up a M18x 1.0 single LP port adaptor... I think the larger diameter base will be more robust than the relatively slim M10 x 1.0 connector to the OPRV port (which was never meant to take a load if the LP hose snags up).
Will post back later.
I think the OPRV hole with a short adapter is a very viable way to go on the Silver. They made the port a bit farther away from the top can on the Silver vs the older models with the fancy casting, allowing more clearance between the casting and an adapter, as shown in my picture. This allows the three-way adapter to fit far lower, in a protected position, as shown. I'm thinking that this method will allow more potential to mess around with turning the Snark upside down or changing the orientation of the air horns. For those who don't know what I'm talking about, the Snark's HP valve is positioned at the bottom of the cans, which raises the regulator higher than most other DH regs that position the valve in the middle of the can. This high position is not optimal for easy breathing, as a DH regulator should be positioned between your shoulder blades. The higher it is, the harder it breathes. So people play around with re-orienting these regs so they sit lower on the tank valve. This includes mounting the reg upside down, turning the cans so the horns are in different than stock orientations, etc. Why bother with a regulator with a poor design? Well, they are actually well made and really good regulators. They are fantastic breathers as they come, and they can be made into an amazingly versatile rig as one can see from this discussion. DH regs with the capability to carry both HP and LP ports are few and far between, and the Silver is one that can.
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Post by vance on May 5, 2019 19:31:02 GMT -8
..... remember the Snark 3 runs unusually high IP. I use Sherwood Shadow + octos on all my double hose regs the IP in the Snark 3 causes the Shadow + to freeflow. I don't run mine so hot. You can still get excellent performance if you lower the IP a bit. The HP valve body is part #2995 in my manual. I have been looking for an example of the cast-in reg, but have not been successful so far.
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Post by vance on May 6, 2019 10:44:33 GMT -8
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Post by Fibonacci on May 6, 2019 12:34:23 GMT -8
Thanks... that link really helps me understand the can re-orientation and hose routing issues!
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Post by bigdave on May 22, 2019 10:40:26 GMT -8
Weren't the Snarks the last real double hose in production? I remember getting one new in the box in the late 80s or early 90s. (Which I still have.)
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