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Post by SeaRat on Nov 19, 2019 8:40:34 GMT -8
The 400/800 has several difficult to find parts. The inner filter for one but the main issue is the seat. This is true for most diaphragm regs unless they used the USD seat. Orings are common but many don't want to have to figure out what they are. I have rebuilt several of these for a project I did a while back. The GL is a great reg, I have one but again there are parts that are not available, mainly the HP seat. I know there are a few NOS ones around but are hard to find, luckily HW seats seem to hold up well. Other than a collector, most are looking to put the regs back in service, this is esp true of DH. To do that you either have to find or make parts, most people are not equipped to make them. The Gold Label Healthways Scuba regulator does have a stainless steel seat, and what is not mentioned is that it is reversible. The O-ring may need replacement, but the seat probably not. John
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Post by SeaRat on Nov 19, 2019 15:02:02 GMT -8
There was a discussion above about White Stag being under-rated equipment. I heartily agree. Here's a unit I put together with a White Stag second stage on a Sportsways Waterlung first stage: White Stage Manual BC-1 by John Ratliff, on Flickr Note not only the regulator, but also the BCD, which is an early, orally-displacement hard shell BCD. I have used it both orally-inflated and with a power inflator, and it is very streamlined and quite good. There are two small holes in the bottom, so when in a surface dive there will be leakage of air out of the unit. It is not like the Dacor Nautilus, in that the Dacor Nautilus was a "constant volume system," or CVS. The White Stag unit is hard-shell, but is displacement-only, and subjected to water pressure and so has to be changed with depth. White Stag--007 by John Ratliff, on Flickr The White Stag DEEP 1 first stage is unique, and not made by any other manufacturer. I have it now assembled with two second stages, and have dived it (see below). It appears to be a balanced system, though I have not tested that. It also has few moving parts, and I have not had any problems with it holding pressure or having a seat problem. White Stag Hard Shell U:W front view by John Ratliff, on Flickr Here I'm diving the DEEP 1 system, with the White Stag hard shell and a White Stag safety vest (it has a pocket, which is also handy). White Stag Regulator002 by John Ratliff, on Flickr Here is the parts diagram of the White Stag second stage. This is their earlier metal second stage. White Stag--006 by John Ratliff, on Flickr Here is a White Stag diagram of their second stage. Do you recognize it? I think it is virtually the same as the later Sportsways second stages, with a different cover. As I stated, there was no problem once this unit was cleaned up to getting it functioning again. I enjoy diving it. I did put a heavier yolk on it, from my Magnum Blizzard by Sherwood, and they were both compatible. I suspect Sherwood made the DEEP 1 SeaLung. John
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Post by nikeajax on Nov 19, 2019 15:23:41 GMT -8
John, I got one of those because you liked it so much and it looked challenging! Another exceptional but rare regulator is the Scubamaster: The second stage is a venturi augmented Healthways can: and the venturi is so good that a flapper weight had to be added to the exhaust for head-down position: JB
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Post by SeaRat on Nov 19, 2019 19:02:10 GMT -8
JB,
Actually, for the Scubamaster, the weight on the mushroom exhaust valve was added because, with the MR-12 balanced first stage, the cracking effort could be adjusted to just 1/4 inch of water pressure (about 1 cm water pressure). With that small a cracking effort, the regulator would leak air when in a head-down position without the weight. The Venturi was also great, but not the reason for the weight.
John
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Post by vance on Nov 19, 2019 19:08:18 GMT -8
The 400/800 has several difficult to find parts. The inner filter for one but the main issue is the seat. This is true for most diaphragm regs unless they used the USD seat. Orings are common but many don't want to have to figure out what they are. I have rebuilt several of these for a project I did a while back. The GL is a great reg, I have one but again there are parts that are not available, mainly the HP seat. I know there are a few NOS ones around but are hard to find, luckily HW seats seem to hold up well. Other than a collector, most are looking to put the regs back in service, this is esp true of DH. To do that you either have to find or make parts, most people are not equipped to make them. The Gold Label Healthways Scuba regulator does have a stainless steel seat, and what is not mentioned is that it is reversible. The O-ring may need replacement, but the seat probably not. John Out of maybe 25-30 HW regs of all flavors with this seat that I've rebuilt, not one had a bad one.
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Post by vance on Nov 19, 2019 19:24:44 GMT -8
I just counted. I've rebuilt 38 Healthways DH regs. I still have 12 of them: 3 GLs, 2 Deluxes, and 7 Scubas. None of the 38 had bad hard seats, 3-5 had worn soft seats that were easily resurfaced, and 2/3 had usable diaphragms. That's pretty good for 50 some-odd year old regs. I'd say the odds of getting a bad hard seat or a bad soft seat is very low, based on that sample.
Diaphragms, hoses. non-return valves, and exhaust mushrooms are available for the Deluxe, and GL, so I would consider they are quite good candidates for rebuilding. The Scuba is a different story because of the exhaust diaphragm and duckbill situation that has been discussed elsewhere. However, for an experienced rebuilder or a dedicated novice, the Scuba can be wrangled into submission and made into a nice casual dive rig.
EDIT: I think most will know this, but my statement about Healthways spare parts should be amended for clarity (for anyone new to the discussion). Main diaphragms, hoses, and non-return valves are available for all 3 models. Exhaust valves are available for the Deluxe and GL, but new exhaust diaphragms are not available for the Scuba.
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Post by nikeajax on Nov 20, 2019 8:38:33 GMT -8
Diaphragms, hoses. non-return valves, and exhaust mushrooms are available for the Deluxe, and GL, so I would consider they are quite good candidates for rebuilding. The Scuba is a different story because of the exhaust diaphragm and duckbill situation that has been discussed elsewhere. However, for an experienced rebuilder or a dedicated novice, the Scuba can be wrangled into submission and made into a nice casual dive... Bravo good sir, and hopefully now we can put that misconception to rest! JB
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Post by tomcatpc on Nov 20, 2019 9:04:19 GMT -8
Now if someone would develop a useable exhaust diaphragm for the SCUBA... Mark
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Post by nikeajax on Nov 20, 2019 9:23:58 GMT -8
Now if someone would develop a useable exhaust diaphragm for the SCUBA... Mark Mark, actually, a more than adequate diaphragm can be made for them using an old MR-12 diaphragm--NO REALLY! JB
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Post by vance on Nov 20, 2019 9:31:31 GMT -8
Healthways DH regulators are often derided as being sub-standard, which also causes them to be under-valued. There is reason to compare the first 2 models unfavorably to some other regulators. I don't particularly like the can/diaphragm interface, which is just rounded surfaces pinched together by a clamp ring. The relatively light sheet metal air horns are easily distorted, and they lack any kind of venturi or even air direction toward the intake horn. The very restrictive 1" mouthpiece also cut potential performance, which was often improved by using a larger hoseloop.
The GL was improved by making the can flange interface more positive and by adding a very effective venturi. They continued to go with the 1" mouthpiece, however. Most knowledgeable vintage enthusiasts recognize the greatness of the GL, but many dismiss the earlier 2 models even though they perform as well as a lot of DH regs of the period. Still, the dollar value of a GL is usually considered to be less than that of USD single stage regulators.
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Post by nikeajax on Nov 20, 2019 11:30:32 GMT -8
Phil, I have to partially disagree with you: I personally don't think the 1-inch hoses are what's limiting the the breathing characteristics, but the size of the mushroom valves inside the mouthpiece. The USD valves are just slightly larger than of those in the Hope-Page, but the hose itself is mostly the same diameter for the entire length.
To quote my my friend, "Just sayin'..."
JB
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Post by vance on Nov 20, 2019 14:44:38 GMT -8
You are correct, it is not the hoses. As I said, it's the 1" mouthpiece. The tiny non-returns they had to use in the 1" mp really restricted the airflow. Other mps, like the H-P, got around the 1" cuff and used bigger non-returns. HW non-returns are actually better than the Nemrod and Dacor 1" non-returns, since they aren't further buried underneath the rolled over rubber mouthpiece cuffs both of those brands used.
There is no real difference between USD 1 1/2", Dacor 1 1/4", and 1" HW (and others) as far as restriction of airflow goes, until you hook on a mouthpiece/non-returns. There's the throttle.
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Post by snark3 on Nov 20, 2019 14:54:08 GMT -8
Now if someone would develop a useable exhaust diaphragm for the SCUBA... Mark Or a Northill…………...
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Post by nikeajax on Nov 20, 2019 15:06:39 GMT -8
JB, Actually, for the Scubamaster, the weight on the mushroom exhaust valve was added because, with the MR-12 balanced first stage, the cracking effort could be adjusted to just 1/4 inch of water pressure (about 1 cm water pressure). With that small a cracking effort, the regulator would leak air when in a head-down position without the weight. The Venturi was also great, but not the reason for the weight. John What also helps with that cracking effort is that, what is it a 3.25", super floppy second stage diaphragm: it makes for a very easy breathing regulator! JB
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Post by vance on Nov 20, 2019 15:12:54 GMT -8
I find the Dacor R-1,2,3 "Dial-a-Breath" DH regulators to be pretty misunderstood and undervalued as well. I think they are good looking regulators, and I like them for what they are, which is a very functional regulator and an important piece of history.
I think there are two good reasons why they are not popular. They are generally considered dogs that are not great performers. This has some merit, especially the R-1,2,3s that came with a 1" hoseloop. But, the R-3 (which had better directed airflow to the intake horn and a 1 1/4" hoseloop) compared favorably to its contemporaries. It is bullet proof, easy to service, and is similar to the Scuba and Scuba Deluxe, performance-wise.
Of course, getting parts for these is becoming very problematic as NOS stores age and become hard to find. They had 2 main diaphragms and an HP diaphragm which are not being reproduced. The HP diaphragm is not hard to make out of a suitable material, and the exhaust diaphragm can be replaced by a USD duckbill valve. This leaves the main intake diaphragm, the LP seat, and the HP soft seat as the main issues with a rebuild of one of these regs. The HP seat can be gently resurfaced, the LP seat can be trimmed and a new seat glued on, but the main diaphragm is a problem.
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