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Post by vance on Jul 20, 2022 15:48:10 GMT -8
This back-burnered project got some work done on it today. It's been bugging me for a long time. I was thinking about what is going wrong with it in the early hours while I'm not asleep and not awake, and a couple days ago I had a thought. The problem is there is leakage from the second stage. At first, I thought it was the LP seat. Spring tension wasn't enough? So I did a bunch of spring combos until I got one that sealed. Now LP air is blowing past somewhere. Pipe threads, maybe? @#$%^! So today I made self contained second stage for it. I've been trying to perfect something like this for a long time. It is a threaded tube with a volcano soldered on and the second stage cap screws onto the pipe. Still leaks. WTF?
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Post by vance on Jul 21, 2022 14:52:19 GMT -8
At first, the leak was straight out of the top (no jets have been drilled in the second stage cap yet), then seemingly out from around the threads. I have a feeling it's not the threads, but the diaphragm is leaking. I don't know for sure but it makes sense.
I'm going to try thread sealer and a nut on the second stage barrel to see if compression all the way around the barrel stops the leak. I'm thinking a flanged nut (like a nut and washer in one). Once these potential leaks are eliminated, I can move on. I won't be using the 2 5-40 screws I added that were meant to do this. They will no longer fit. I should also modify and use a new HP diaphragm, just to be sure these problems aren't being caused by the old one.
A big problem is that I don't have a lot of latitude height-wise. The more stuff I add around the barrel raises the cap and lever height (and second stage spring pressure issues), so the flanged nut has to be thin.
This poor ravaged C-2 body is probably reaching its limit to tolerate any more mods and mistakes. I might need to toss it and start in on a new, orphan R-3 body that I have. I can correct some obvious problems and hopefully end up with a useable regulator. But for now, the C-2 is still the sacrificial lamb.
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Post by vance on Jul 22, 2022 14:27:15 GMT -8
Much better now. I made a new second stage barrel and seat. The volcano sits a touch higher in this one to tighten up the spring tension. I sealed the threads on the second stage barrel and put it back together. There's no leak at the soft seat, but there's a very small leak out of the spring plate opening where the barrel screws in. I don't think the barrel threads are leaking and pretty sure it is the diaphragm. I tried to make a nut to squeeze the diaphragm around the barrel, but the bell that holds the HP spring interferes a bit. I could cut part of the bell away for clearance since it wouldn't affect anything, and might just do that next. Here's a couple views with an old lever (my first one ever, I think!). I'm confident it's going to work. Just a couple more hoops to jump through!
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Post by nikeajax on Jul 22, 2022 14:48:56 GMT -8
Clever, clever toilet-lever! Ohhhh, I like that: very elegant solution. JB
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Post by vance on Jul 22, 2022 15:08:38 GMT -8
If it ever works properly (which I'm sure it will), it'll be the best breathing Dacor DH out there (except for the Dacor Oly 2020).
It'll be the best breathing R-3, for sure. The 2020 is obviously not an OEM Dacor, but the modded R-3 will be indistinguishable from an original when mounted on a tank.
Except for the added LP ports...
This isn't a mod that many would be able to accomplish, even after I get the bugs ironed out. You'd need specialized machinery to make the parts.
Like the 2020, it's just an experiment to see what these could have been.
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Post by SeaRat on Jul 22, 2022 15:20:04 GMT -8
It looks like you've dumped the Dacor double-lever design for the second stage. Would you say that this design was a failure?
John
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Post by vance on Jul 22, 2022 21:16:37 GMT -8
I like the compound lever idea, but this is simpler and works well.
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Post by vance on Aug 6, 2022 14:10:50 GMT -8
This regulator is also a great candidate for a salvaged single hose second stage lever. The lack of a higher IP adjuster/HP spring retainer like the Trieste/Titan II/etc. regs have allows for plenty of free movement downwards without needing a split lever. The one shown has a double bend, ala Trieste levers, but that's unnecessary in this case. I just don't have any more SH second stage levers to play with. I think a standard one would work well w/o much modding. I'll need to remove or trim the Dial a Breath vane, b/c it won't turn fully with the new second stage body in place. You can see one of the two jet drillings, also. They pump out some air! I still have a very minor leak around the second stage threads, or the HP diaphragm is leaking somewhere. I'm pretty sure it's the diaphragm. I need to mod a new diaphragm to eliminate the possibility of a leak due to a too rigid old part. I bought some slotted filister head screws for the body to box attachment, but they are bare brass and will need plating. You can see there's a mix of screw types being used right now. Also, you can see that the parts I'm using to mod are in pretty poor shape, and some, like the first stage body, have been brutalized in the past. Not by me. I will only mod parts that are orphaned and/or in poor condition.
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Post by vance on Aug 9, 2022 14:46:17 GMT -8
I'm convinced that the old OEM diaphragm is leaking. A new one needs to be modded by enlarging the second stage hole, adding the two screw holes, and enlarging the center hole for the IP adjuster. I think I have a NOS diaphragm, but it's going to take some digging to find it. That should get it sealed up.
I am anxious to try this reg out. I think it's going to be really good, esp. with James' main diaphragm. I won't use a second main diaphragm, but will sub a duckbill. This will probably get tested with a C-3 bottom box. I have an R-4 middle exhaust ring that I could use on this, I guess.
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Post by vance on May 11, 2023 15:23:35 GMT -8
This project has been back-burnered for some time. It does work, but there's a slight leak somewhere. I think a new R-3 type HP diaphragm cut to fit this second stage will do the trick. Problem is, I don't have a new one.
Rob at TSM is trying to produce new HP diaphragms for R-1,2,3 and the later regs (all the later regs use the same HP diaphragm).
A prototype is on the way to me for test fit. Hopefully, he'll feel it's worth it to produce them. Let him know if you want some!
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Post by vance on Oct 2, 2023 14:18:21 GMT -8
Well, Rob's R-1,2,3 HP diaphragm has been back-burnered or shelved. Not sure.
The material was too thin or not stiff enough to produce enough IP pressure with the stock fixed HP diaphragm/HP pin interface. IP would be 80 psig, max.
I use a later model adjustable HP spring pad in my personal R-2s and R-3s for the opposite condition: In every R-2 or R-3 I've owned (at least a dozen) the IP is too high @160 or more psig.
This makes seating the second stage lever very difficult. That much pressure will overcome the LP spring's tension and will cause a leak. If you can get the second stage to seal under pressure, the spring tension has to be really tight. The consequence is that cracking effort goes sky-high.
An adjuster makes things much more manageable when you can bring IP down to 120-135.
I will probably move this post to a Dacor 2500 thread. I got side-tracked! Not unusual for this board.
I began to post a bit of news about the alternative second stage, and went down the rabbit hole.
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Post by vance on Oct 2, 2023 14:37:51 GMT -8
I got some RTV and smeared it all over the HP diaphragm, box, and valve body in an effort to fix a small leak that is somewhere. I have always suspected the HP diaphragm around the large hole I made in it to accommodate the new second stage. I'm letting it dry for several days before hooking it up to pressure.
I need to do something about the DAB vane, which is in the way in more ways than one. It blocks the venturi jet shot down the intake horn, and is too close to the second stage body. I'm feeling guilty for cutting it up, so I'll probably make a new post to seal the hole.
EDIT: The obvious solution is to thread the DAB sleeve and put a plug in it, duh.
I'm awaiting James' C-3 type/+DBE cover for this one!
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Post by james1979 on Oct 2, 2023 15:31:03 GMT -8
Hopefully this week I can run a print of it (and fingers crossed that it's a good print!). On the HP Diaphragm, I take it the layout was good but Rob's material didn't work out great? I'm debating if it's worth buying a couple pieces of material from McMaster and hand cutting one to try.....
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Post by vance on Oct 2, 2023 16:10:08 GMT -8
Hopefully this week I can run a print of it (and fingers crossed that it's a good print!). On the HP Diaphragm, I take it the layout was good but Rob's material didn't work out great? I'm debating if it's worth buying a couple pieces of material from McMaster and hand cutting one to try..... I think the material was insufficient to the task. Very flexy-bendy. Shims would make it work though. If James is on it, there's going to be some answers!
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Post by james1979 on Oct 2, 2023 17:17:48 GMT -8
Any chance you can send me a piece of the material (or positively identify it)?
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