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Post by duckbill on Aug 24, 2006 9:33:16 GMT -8
Thanks SeaRat. I do everything just as you describe, except that I use the handle end of a plastic knife because it is thinner, and my hoses are marked for orientation. I marked them while sitting in an armchair I appreciate your help, as always.
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stuart
Regular Diver
Posts: 20
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Post by stuart on Aug 24, 2006 10:33:52 GMT -8
I never took any of the flapper valve discussions as an insult as I no longer have anything to do with the sales and haven't for a few years now, so wasn't trying to promote them. I've used all types from Original USD, Marvel ,Medi, Spiro, mine, and never had any problems with any. They all do exactly what they were designed to do. I'v got flapper valves that have just been lying about in various sheds for about six years now with nothing on them and they are as good as when they first arrived, so I don't think talc actually does anything, but it certainly does no harm and may protect by forming a barrier between the latex and other substances. Flapper valves should be readily available for evermore so there shouldn't be the need to treasure the ones we have. By the way natural rubber is used because it is simple and cheap to produce, over the injetion moulded types. Also when we talk about neoprene rubber it may come as a surprise that most neoprene products are a blend of neoprene and natural rubber, and possibly other compounds to get the desired effect
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Post by SeaRat on Aug 24, 2006 11:18:25 GMT -8
Duckbill, When we were taught that, there really were no plastic knives around, at least in the Navy Concerning the talc, I have some further thoughts. Talc is used on latex products to keep them from sticking together (I'm not sure of the mechanism). By putting talc onto latex, you will get latex onto the talc. This talc can get onto your hands, and be transfered to you via eating, becoming airborne, or handling other items (cigarettes, for instance). In this way, the talc with some latex attached can get into your body. If people get latex into their body, a certain percentage will develop latex allergy. This is a big problem, and not one to be taken lightly. Studies have shown that one of the principal means of getting latex into the body is through the talc used on the material (these studies were done on hospital latex gloves). Without the talc, it is much more difficult to breath or get cured latex into the body. Talc itself is a mineral dust, and while it does not produce the types of lung diseases that silica does, it still is not good to breath. Talc does have an American Conference of Industrial Hygienist's Threshold Limit Value (TLV) of 2 milligrams per cubic meter, over an eight-hour work period. This is a lot, and the reason is for lung, respiratory tract irritation. But there is another caution, and that is that some talc apparently has asbestos fibers in it. There is a notation that for talc containing asbestos fibers, the TLV is the same as for asbestos, which is 0.1 fibers per cubic centimeter of air, breathed over an eight-hour period. The notation for asbestos is "Pneumonconiosis; lung cancer, mesothelioma" (lung/dust reaction--scar tissue buildup, long cancer and cancer of the lining of the chest wall, the mesothelium). It is difficult to determine whether the talc being used is contaminated with asbestos. Talc is classified by ACGIH concerning carcinogenicity as A4, "Not Classifiable as a Himan Carcinogen." Asbestos, on the other hand, is classified as "A1 -- Confirmed Human Carcinogen" by the ACGIH. This is on a five-point scale, where the A5 position states "Not Suspected as a Human Carcinogen."I therefore do not use talc at all on my duckbills; I use hospital-grade silicone grease, and rub it into the areas I'm concerned about (the top and the bottom where the two sides meet). This seems to work well, and extend the life of the duckbills greatly. John
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2006 13:47:31 GMT -8
I concur with SeaRat.....I use silicone grease on my flutter duckbill valves also. Prior to discovering this web site and the VDH site, my RAM sat around unprotected for almost 30 years with the same flutter valve.....it was covered with silicon, dust and bits of gravel from the last dive I used it at Lake Murray Ok in 79.......exhaust valve was toast and I was not able to locate parts, until 04.....the flutter valve was in pretty bad shape, tore easily etc.......however, it still worked when I tested it before trying to remove it for a rebuild.
I also rub the grease into the outside of my hoses, back side of the main diaphgram and the outside of the mouthpiece, except for the bite area..........I still have my first old regulator, a SW sportdiver II.......coated the hoses in silicon in the late sixties before shipping out to Nam.......the diaphgram, hoses etc are still good and functional.........
Silicon should work just fine on Latex rubber just as well.........
I had to wash the talc off the latex duckbill I bought from Dan, couldn't keep the darn thing still while trying to attach my hose.
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Post by time2dive on Aug 29, 2006 21:53:16 GMT -8
Since I have had a number of new duckbills go bad on me I have decided that a little prevention was in order. I now have a couple of spare duckbills, I remove the duckbill after every day of diving, dry it off, put it in a zip lock bag along with a little talc and put a different pre-talced duckbill back on. This gives me a chance to blow out the hoses also.
Tim
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Post by Broxton Carol on Sept 12, 2006 9:44:03 GMT -8
when I have my broxton apart for cleaning, I use a little silicone on the bill. I use TALC in my underwear!
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Post by duckbill on Sept 12, 2006 11:32:46 GMT -8
It's interesting how many I've heard who use silicone on the duckbills. I do mostly surf entry-exit when ocean diving, and sandy/silty beach diving when diving our river. I've always heard NOT to use silicone on exhalation valves because if sand gets into it the valve could leak quite a bit. Do those of you using silicone do mostly rocky entries or boat diving? (Chuck, it's good you don't use silicone in your underwear. You might get sand stuck in there!)
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2006 11:52:37 GMT -8
terry
I can not speak for the others, but I smear a dab on the inside of the valve let it set for a few days and then wipe of the residual.... most of it soaks into the rubber..haven't any problems...on the outside part I don't wipe it off except where it fits against the can......and yeah, it collects debri.......but it doannn hurt nothin........
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Post by Broxton Carol on Sept 12, 2006 13:28:52 GMT -8
Spray silicone, or wipe it on the horns, the mouthpiece where the hoses go on, and on the mouthpiece valves too. Its a snap to take it apart without danger of tearing your bill when you fight to get the hoses off. When the hoses are off squirt, or swab a little silicone down into the bill. Its no big deal. I always use talk, never silicone on my underwear. In an underwater knife fight, your suit could slide off, then your in REAL trouble. Disgusting!
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Post by william on Sept 12, 2006 18:39:45 GMT -8
Hi Chuck How are you good buddy. I needed to ask, what Brand of Silicone Spray is the very Best to use and where is it available to buy? I bet that you buy and use the very best one available too. Is there also a container that is Not in a spray form so it too could be used without having to spray? Thanks so much Chuck. William
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Post by Broxton Carol on Sept 13, 2006 4:48:09 GMT -8
Silicone is available in several forms. Stick, paste, or spray. The stick variety is available at auto parts stores, or SEARS! The paste is available in a tube, as silicone sealer, which you dont want as this sets up, and is used gor gaskets and windsheilds. And as silicone lube, this stuff does not set up or get hard which is nice to put on your gaskets, and diaphragm down in the center of the regulator body, not the big diaphragm. Putting some silicone on the edges of this gasket, and on the face of the spring retainer prevents "windup" and a smooth seal. There is also the spray variety, which is made by a lot of brands, and can be got at Home depot, or any hardware store very cheap. The brand you find often in a dive shop is named "500 PSI" and is great for all dive gear applications. One more thing, never get any silicone on the hp seat, or it can cause sealing problems.
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