|
Post by Danny D on Feb 17, 2008 18:58:39 GMT -8
I had a set of double Voit 50's that were my father's fail a couple years ago before I was somewhat informed on all the procedures. The hydro company put so many X's on the tanks that I thought they were used in an adult film.
It now has become apparent to me that they were failed on purpose in order to sell me some new tanks. I should have figured that when I brought them to the lds and they repetitively made comments about how " i don't know about these they are pretty old, the company isn't around anymore, this stuff can be dangerous" etc and you should look into some new tanks. This when they were in perfect shape in all previous tests at another lds with not a spot of rust.
If I only had a time machine I would have rectified this in one way or another. Make sure you educate yourself when dealing with lds' that are not fully accepting of what we are doing.
|
|
|
Post by william on Feb 17, 2008 19:39:28 GMT -8
{ "I am sorry to hear that this happened to you Danny" }. I DO beleive that this is exactly what did happen too. They even may rationalize that they were doing you a favor, by protecting you from a tank failure. It is a really smart idea to talk to and have a little trust in the Hydro Test people, maybe { even asking them to let you Watch as they test your vintage tanks!!! }
|
|
|
Post by SeaRat on Feb 17, 2008 20:39:31 GMT -8
If a tank fails, there should be a test report which states why it failed. If not, ask for it. There are specific criterion for the tests, and there are specific reasons for a failure. I had a pair of twin 42 cubic foot tanks which were old liferaft bottles. In the USAF, we converted them to dive tanks by removing the wire wrapping, taping the necks for 1/2 inch tapered threads, and using an older-style twin tank manifold with the 1/2 inch tapered threads. These tanks had passed a number of hyros, but then I got word from the USAF that they had destroyed all of theirs because of thread problems (tapping these threads was a problem with that steel). I looked at mine, and noted some thread problems, and decided to drill them and remove them from service. I still miss those tanks, but know in this case that the reasons were valid for their removal (and indeed, it was me who removed them from service). Here's an old photo of me swimming in Clear Lake with those tanks: John
|
|
|
Post by Danny D on Feb 18, 2008 9:51:36 GMT -8
William,
Thanks for the condolences. It would not have bothered me so much If they were not my fathers. I was young and naive then and just took the tanks and mooped out of the dive shop. They did not have the info available for me on the test and I did not think anything of it because I was so sad. It would not have mattered because the tanks were stamped all to hell with x's so I would not have been able to get them filled anywhere. It was not until I had talked with Luis last year that it all added up. Needless to say that lds has lost my business for life and that of those I talk to.
SeaRat,
Your tanks look like they must have been a dream to dive with. I bet it must have been hard on you to have drilled them. I also love the pictures you post from your experiences in the military. They are a great resource to younger divers.
I am planning on taking the VIP and Eddy classes at Boston Sea Rovers this spring so to better educate myself and to make sure this does not happen to me again in the future. With that I am also going to scout around for a trusted hydro tester for myself.
|
|
|
Post by shackle on Feb 18, 2008 12:06:04 GMT -8
I take my tanks directly to a testing facility to have them done. It is a mistake to do this through a LDS. Conflict of interest.
|
|
Dale
Pro Diver
Posts: 141
|
Post by Dale on Feb 18, 2008 18:26:24 GMT -8
You're right Shackle, but fortunately not every LDS is like this. I own a dive shop and if a customer brings me an old tank, I know where to send them. In a lot of cases though, the best thing to do is take them to the testing facility yourself.
|
|
|
Post by duckbill on Feb 18, 2008 23:02:52 GMT -8
Dale (or any other dive shop owner here), what are usually the feelings of LDS owners when someone does this? I'm thinking especially about a situation where someone lives in a location where there is only one LDS. Would a LDS owner hold it against a customer who feels the need to circumvent them for hydros?
It is kind of a moot point here, as the only hydro guy around here who plus rates the old tanks only works through LDSs. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't take Joe diver's tank directly since he most likely has an unwritten gentlemen's agreement to work with the LDSs for his business. Still though, I'm curious what could happen in other cases. As a LDS owner, how do you regard being bypassed for hydros? Would you be offended? Or would you truly, honestly treat the customer with as much attention as any other, more loyal one? (O.K. So that last question is a bit loaded, but I've really been curious if there is a downside to taking a cylinder directly to a hydro facility.)
|
|
Dale
Pro Diver
Posts: 141
|
Post by Dale on Feb 19, 2008 4:14:02 GMT -8
It doesn't bother me any, I don't make a ton of money on hydro's, its more of a service to customers. Even though I'm in a town of 100,000 + people, we have no hydro facility, everything gets shipped out of town. Most people don't want to bother with the hasle, they let me do it.
|
|
|
Post by duckbill on Feb 19, 2008 12:01:54 GMT -8
So, do you think this would generally be the attitude of most LDS owners?
|
|
|
Post by time2dive on Feb 19, 2008 14:11:19 GMT -8
Our shop charges $33 for a hydro, our cost is $15, we then change the burst disks, which should be changed at time of hydro and do a visual which means new o-rings. People that take there tanks directly to the hydro facility save $15, but do not get a visual, o-rings or new burst disks, and then wonder why their burst disks, necks and valves leak. We do not fill tanks that are out of visual give or take a month or two and will not fill tanks that are out of hydro. I have failed a number of cylinders in the past few months for neck cracks, excessive rust, pitting, thread damage and other abuse of tanks. As I tell people SCUBA cylinders rarely die a natural death, the are generally murdered. Many people feel that visuals are a waste of money, I feel that $11 a year for the fill station operator is worth it. If a tank dies a violent death it does not generally kill the owner, it kills the person filling it. You do not have to have a hydro or a visual to get your tanks filled, as long as you fill them yourself with your own compressor.
Tim
|
|
|
Post by duckbill on Feb 19, 2008 16:56:36 GMT -8
Thanks.
Actually, a legal hydrostatic test must also include a visual inspection, but doesn't get you a nice sticker to say so. By observing the hydro date stamped on the cylinder, a SCUBA shop SHOULD assume that the self-imposed SCUBA industry annual visual has been satisfied for the year, but I doubt any would. After a year has elapsed the cylinder would need to get another visual each subsequent year for four years anyway to satisfy the "requirement".
This brings up another dilemma for those who take their cylinders directly to the hydro facility. What do they do for stickers? Unless a person fills his own tanks or is certified as an inspector and has his own stickers, is he out of luck during that first year in terms of LDS air fills? Or are some hydrostatic shops able to affix SCUBA-industry accepted visual stickers?
By the way, I realize some aluminum cylinders have their own additional testing requirements (vis-plus), so I'm mainly asking about the feasibility of taking steel cylinders directly to the hydro facilities.
|
|
|
Post by time2dive on Feb 19, 2008 20:48:33 GMT -8
In two words.....It depends, we have two hydro facilities here. One that I trust, one that I don't. I have seen some of the so called visuals done by one facility and I am not even sure that I trust their hydros. The other facility has failed some tanks on visual before the hydro, them I trust. Still the hydro facility that I do trust does NOT change o-rings or burst disks on the valves, so in theory it is an incomplete visual, and no they do not put on visual stickers, nor do they do a Nitrox visual. When ever possible I try and show the customer why their tank failed visual before I x out the numbers. All of that being said, most shops that I know of do not fail older steel tanks just because they are old.
Tim
|
|
|
Post by shackle on Feb 20, 2008 7:19:15 GMT -8
I hope I didn't offend any dive shop owners with my comment. I have just experienced a lot of the same thing that Danny D and others have at many LDS when it comes to vintage gear and mine is in pretty pristine condition; it does not look like junk. By the way the facility I use includes the visual as part of the hydro.
|
|
|
Post by duckbill on Feb 20, 2008 10:34:39 GMT -8
By the way the facility I use includes the visual as part of the hydro. They have to by law. It is just a question of whether a hydrostatic facility can provide a sticker that is acceptable to dive shops. Tim has shown just how subjective a visual can be when one hydro shop's visual satisfies a dive shop while another's doesn't.
|
|