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Post by scubadiverbob on Oct 7, 2007 12:03:22 GMT -8
A diver asked me about getting a Nikonos camera (Nik 1 or Nik 3) and about the differences in them. I figured this info might be something others might want to know and this section of the forum would be a good place to put it. They are pretty much the same as far as capabilities for taking pictures (they all used the same nikon lens). You'd be better off with a Nikonos 4a, Nikonos 5, or the much sought after Nikonos RS. All the Nikonos line are "rangefinders" except the Nikonos RS which is "through the lens (SLR)" focusing. The Nikonos RS was Nikons top of the line underwater camera. They can still be had for about $2,000 NIB (new in box) from a factory in Japan (and I'd have to look that up if you want to go that route; it's been a couple of years since I talked to them, hope they aren't sold out). You asked about the Nik 1, 2, & 3. Concerning them, each was an improvement of the other. The Nik 1 had framing problems that was corrected in the Nik 3. The Nik 1 & 2 required an external light meter and if I remember right the 3 came with a built in light meter. If you get a 1 or 2, I recommend the sekonic light meter (the big round one) that didn't require a housing. All of these cameras required connector to EO cables to hook up to a flash not made by Nikon (though some strobes came with Nikonos connectors specifically for a certain camers (Oceanic 2000 had a Nikonos II connector)). The original flashbulb flash from Nikon required the large flash bulbs (I still have some somewhere in storage) and a large battery you can't get anymore (Mercury?). You could get an adapter for AG3 bulbs. They are hard to find now. I had one in Panama. The Nikonos 4a (the one I have) was the first automatic underwater camera. Though, no longer requiring an underwater light meter, it is still a rangefinder and requires knowledge of how to correct for "parallax error" especially for close up shots. The 4a doesn't give you much control of shutter speed and has a tendency to flood through the film door. This was corrected with the Nikonos 5 and also the 5 gives you the capability to use TTL strobes (the Nikonos 105). The nik 5 was still a rangefinder; theough the best rangefinder Nikon produced. The Nikons RS corrected all the previous problems with all the Nikonos line and was through the lens (SLR). If you can get your hands on a RS that was the best underwater camera ever made! None of the Nikonos line of cameras require a housing and are useable above and below water. Kayakers and skiers love them for that reason (making too much competition on e-bay). The person's you should talk to is Chris (Christina) or Dan from Sub Aquatic Camera Repair, subaquaticcamera.com/ , in Monterey (actually they are in Salinas). If you buy a camera off e-bay you would have to send it to them to get the internal (non-user serviceable) o-rings replaced and pressure tested. Check with them about buying a camera. They usually have some for sale already serviced, tested, and ready to dive. If you buy off e-bay, expect to spend between $150 to $250 to get the camera in dive ready condition (without being flooded; which would be a bummer). My Nik 4a I think cost me $150 or so to get serviced a couple of years ago. Also, get the video PADI Underwater Photography, PADI product no. 60191-NTSC, 60131-PAL, and watch all of it. Available from www.padi.com/ Copywrited 1998. Has pretty good info for someone just starting out with a Nikonos. Robert
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flafrog
Regular Diver
1962 Honor Graduate
Posts: 15
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Post by flafrog on Oct 7, 2007 13:55:36 GMT -8
A Short Note;
First of all all Calypso/Nikonos 1/Calypso Nikonos/Nikonos/NikonosII/NikonosIII/Nikonos4a/NikonosV have a viewfinder not a rangefinder(which would allow you to focus the camera) additional viewfinders are also available for topside and wider underwater lenses.
In the USA The Original Nikonos became available in 1963 until 1968 when the Nikonos II replaced it,the Nikonos III became available in 1975(the Nikonos III is the best of the early non metered Cameras, it was improved with a registered film advance and and strobe connector that was carried over into the later cameras,among other improvements)The 1980 Nikonos 4a was the least desirable based on its poor record of flooding and a very limited metering system,this was replaced by the Nikonos V in 1984 and until Nikon stopped production in 2002.
In 1992 The Nikonos RS single lens reflex(the image is viewed through the lens)surfaced with proberly the best optics every avilaiable for underwater photography i.e. 28mm,50mm,20-35zoom and later the incredible 13mm, unfortunately the state of the art had bypassed the cameras electronics (N6006) and to update (N90s)would have driven its costs even higher, production ended in 1996.
The Nikonos family of cameras were supported by Nikon of course but also a large family of aftermarket parts and following including repairs Underwater Photography training,and publications.
I would suggest if you are in the market buy the later model NikonosV as parts are not available or getting harder to get for the earlier models. For more information I suggest you goggle Nikonos Underwater Cameras. My experience suggests Helix in Chicago.
Flafrog
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Post by kgehring on Oct 7, 2007 15:07:07 GMT -8
Christine is no longer at Subaquatic camera. Dan is and a great guy! They are friendly and will help you.
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Post by swimjim on Oct 7, 2007 15:19:14 GMT -8
The Nik II was the last all metal camera. The III's top and view finder area was plastic and the threads for the screws would strip out easily, or so I'm told by the techs. I'd rather own a two then a three for this reason. The film racheting problem/ frame spacing issue wasen't that serious for me. I rarely experienced any real problems with it. I always thought the Nikonos by guess and by golly focusing system was pretty Rube Goldberg, for what is otherwise an excellent piece of equipment. I made alot of great images with mine over the years though. I keep my Nik II for going past 130 fow. I'm all digital above that depth these days.
Jim
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Post by scubadiverbob on Oct 7, 2007 15:36:49 GMT -8
Thanks, I got it mixed up (view finder vs. rangefinder; I have a habit of calling non-slr's rangefinders). Your right, range finders had the split focusing in them and when the image wasn't split in two, it was in focus. My mistake. I thought the Nik 3 had a needle light meter in it? I used to have one back in the early 80's I bought from CTMC Storey on the Coral Sea; but, that's been a few years ago. All I'm typing is from memory. And I'm getting old. The 4a did have a bad habit of flooding through the camera door usually when the o-ring wasn't put in correctly or sand or something got in it. The door o-ring has little tabs on it that have to go precisely in the little grooves made for them. If the o-ring, or seal would be a better word for it, isn't in correctly it might just flood. I've had two Nik 4a's. The first I bought in 1983 or 84 when they first came out. It flooded through the door. The one I use now Ive had for three years; no flooding problem as I now know how to take care of it. The Nikonos V, like I stated, was an improvement on the 4a 'cause they fixed the door problem, made it work with TTL strobes (through the lens light metering of the strobe; on the Nik V that doesn't mean slr), and you get adjustable shutter speeds. The Nik V came out not long after the 4a and didn't cost a lot more than the 4a is why the 4a had a short manufacturing life span, I think.
Like I said, all this is to help another diver that is thinking about getting into underwater photography. Might be better to buy a cheap digital camera, and learn about underwater photography, then switch to a RS once someone learns to take pictures underwater. Save the big investment for later. I use a cheap camera in current or surge when I don't want to take a chance on messing up my Nikonos. So, this would also be a good investment. Walmart has a digital underwater camera they just started selling for $149 that says it's good to 90 feet.
If someone's a lousy photographer digital is the way to go. I would never recommend a Nikonos for some people. They can delete pictures and use photoshop so no one ever sees their mistakes, using a digital. I was on one dive boat where one diver must have took 300 or so pictures with a digital. He deleted all but about ten of them then went around showing off the ten pictures. Well, they weren't that good; but, being a nice guy, I didn't say anything.
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Post by scubadiverbob on Oct 7, 2007 15:55:23 GMT -8
Karl,
What happened to Chris? I know Chris used to be into nature photography. Wonder if she got back into it?
Robert
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Post by kgehring on Oct 7, 2007 16:21:23 GMT -8
I dove with Chris H. this summer in Bonaire. She is working at Capture Photo in Bonaire at the Divi Flamingo Resort.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2007 16:37:52 GMT -8
I've a Nikonos II since 1970 that I bought and used in Okinawa. Have used it in and out of the water ever since. I have had no problems with it other than screwing up the rewind some times and loosing the complete film package.
Never did mount a flash or strobe to it. Never felt I needed one until these last few years when I found out the silly thing has a one of a kind connector and nothing today fits......
So I won a III on ebay 2 years ago. Went crazy and bought a 15mm lens for that, and a 20 for the II. Got two strobes now. One a big heavy Helix aquaflash with arm and tray which works. And won a NOvatec III by aquacraft with arm and tray, last spring that I have not tested yet.
The big helix is for the III and the Novatec is for the II after I find someone to convert the connectors to those like the III has.
Used both cameras a year ago last june in cozumel. Didn't need a flash or strobe........was very bright, even at 60-70 feet.
Was nice having 48 shots instead of just 24. I do miss the 36 frame rolls however. Does anyone know where to find those or they even made anymore?
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Post by Captain on Oct 8, 2007 5:54:18 GMT -8
Recently a relative gave me what appears to be a in the box new Nikonos II with 35mm lens, a housed Seconic light meter and a Seacor optical viewfinder. I am waiting on a Sea & Sea 18 mm lens I bought on ebay. I already had a strobe and a connector to fit the Nikonos II connector that I had used on a homemade housing for a Canon SLR that I no longer have. I was thinking of getting a housing for a Sony H9 I have when the Nikonos fell in my lap. I don't take a lot of UW pictures so the Nikonos and 18mm lens was a great deal compared to the cost of housing the Sony. The only issues with film is the price is going up and the selection of various types is going down.
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JohnA
Pro Diver
Posts: 134
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Post by JohnA on Oct 8, 2007 7:04:29 GMT -8
Nikonos III had a plastic top. Nikonos II was all metal.
John
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Post by scubadiverbob on Oct 8, 2007 14:06:29 GMT -8
Karl, Wish I was in Bonaire. I think Dan owns Capture Photo and Sub Aquatic Camera.
If you get to go there again, tell Chris I said "Hi"
Robert
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jviss
Pro Diver
Posts: 209
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Post by jviss on Oct 16, 2007 6:43:30 GMT -8
For what it's worth:
- the Nikonos RS uses different lenses than the non-SLR Nikonos cameras; - the 4a is probably the least desirable; the Nik II seemed to be the most sought after for while, but many are out of service due to cracked top housings. My favorite is the Nik II (I have 5 of them!). The Nik V is great, but will not survive a flood, and is even easily wrecked by droplets of water falling into it during film changes. The RS is controversial, there are lots of good articles about it on the web. I'd love to have one, but not at the prices they command, and film is D-E-A-D. - there's no built-in light meter in a Nik III; - "all of these cameras required connector to EO cables to hook up to a flash not made by Nikon" - incorrect. I am puzzled as to this statement. Most common out there is the Nik II connector, but there's also Sea-Loc, Ikelite, etc. EO was great because it is underwater-pluggable, but somewhat rare. - "The original flashbulb flash from Nikon required the large flash bulbs" - there are many large flashbulb types, the Nikonos flash unit uses the single bayonet, generic type No. 6, FP type, or with the adapter an AG-3. Bulbs went out of production in the US by US companies in 1980, 'though foreign companies, notably Russian and Romanian still make bulbs, and bought much of the production equipment. Bulbs are still used in cave diving and in movie special effects work, but for photography, electronic flash dominates. I like bulbs! I have a large collection for my Nik and Rollei Marin. - "and a large battery you can't get anymore (Mercury?)" - The battery is a carbon-zinc 22.5V battery, Eveready 412, easily available online for $8 to $12.
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Post by Captain on Oct 16, 2007 8:37:05 GMT -8
Jviss, do you have any information on the Sea & Sea 18mm UW lens for the Nikonos. I got one recently but it is missing the stick on depth of field scale. I am looking for anyone who can copy the scale so I can make my own.
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jviss
Pro Diver
Posts: 209
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Post by jviss on Oct 16, 2007 8:53:01 GMT -8
Hi Tom,
That's an awesome lens! No, I don't have one, or a copy of the sticker. Have you tried contacting Sea&Sea?
jv
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Post by Captain on Oct 16, 2007 11:39:49 GMT -8
Hi Tom, That's an awesome lens! No, I don't have one, or a copy of the sticker. Have you tried contacting Sea&Sea? jv I emailed them a week ago but haven't receiveds a reply.
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