jviss
Pro Diver
Posts: 209
|
Post by jviss on Oct 22, 2007 16:47:12 GMT -8
On the O-ring size for hte body, I would either ask Dan at Subaquatic Camera, or cut a used O-ring and carefully measure the length, then divide by Pi for diameter.
|
|
|
Post by Captain on Oct 22, 2007 17:13:30 GMT -8
I don't believe measuring the cut length would work. You need the ID of the O ring. Metric O rings are sized according to ID and cross section width. I don't believe the length of the cut O ring would give you the correct ID or OD.
|
|
|
Post by scubadiverbob on Oct 22, 2007 18:38:04 GMT -8
Captain,
I have the japanese/english version of the factory repair manual. If you want it, PM me your address. I might still have a spare set of o-rings setting around somewhere for Nik II's also.
Robert
|
|
|
Post by scubadiverbob on Oct 22, 2007 18:41:01 GMT -8
If you use non-nikonos o-rings you might just want to use camera only in fresh water!
|
|
|
Post by SeaRat on Oct 22, 2007 21:38:43 GMT -8
I think that an O-ring, properly sized, is an O-ring. As long as it is intact, it should be good for either salt- or fresh-water. I just happen to have 4 main body O-rings for a Nikonos II (I own two of the cameras). PM me and I can send one of them. I do not have any of the other O-rings, however. My experience is that if the O-rings are taken care of (greased before each immersion, wiped down, and put back on the camera), they will probably last a lifetime. Mine have lasted twenty-plus years. I have looked at all my underwater photography books, and none of them spec the O-rings, not even NIKONOS PHOTOGRAPHY - the CAMERA and SYSTEM by Fred M. Roberts, who is usually pretty meticulous about specs. There are two books I would recommend, and one I know as available is Peter Rowlands book The Underwater Photographer's Handbook. It contains a written section in the back with drawings about stripping and repairing the Nikonos, and seems to show both the Nikonos II, Nikonos III, and Nikonos IV. The other book is Jim and Cathy Church's book, Beginning Underwater Photography, Second Edition, which has "Chapter IX, Saving a Flooded Nikonos." It shows how to field strip both the camera and lens. Here's the Rowlands book on Amazon: www.amazon.com/Underwater-Photographers-Handbook-Peter-Rowlands/dp/0442277164I have a note beside this entry in the Jim and Cathy Church book: "...We personally send our Nikonos cameras to Karl Stellrecht, San Jose Photo Equipment Service, 560 South Bascom Ave., San Jose, CA 95128." The note was a phone number (no area code) of 292-7468. I had to send my Nikonos to him in the late 1980s as its shutter speed knob had come off underwater (broken off), and the camera flooded. Luckily, it was in fresh water, but they did a very good job of recovering it. John
|
|
|
Post by SeaRat on Oct 23, 2007 4:47:18 GMT -8
Well, unfortunately, I just took off one of my Nikonos O-rings, and compared it to the four that I have. The four that I have are actually extra Ikelite O-rings for my housing, going around the ports, and not for the Nikonos II. But like I said, the original O-ring on the Nikonos is still in very good condition, so I don't think I'll have any problems. Captain, sorry but I don't have extras.
John
|
|
|
Post by Captain on Oct 23, 2007 7:19:04 GMT -8
Thanks guys, I really want to find out what the O ring sizes are so I don't have to depend on finding original Nikon O rings. I feel the same as Searat generally an O ring is an O ring. Most equipment is designed to a standard and things such as O rings, seals, bearings and other parts that are common to most things mechanical are standard sizes. Most time manufactures try to maximize profit by convincing their customers that only their parts will work and then sell them at inflated prices. I am going to an industral O ring supplier this week with the camera to see in I can determine the sizes. I will post the my finding. Scubadiver Bob, I have a copy of the manual but I find it lacks clear step by step instruction on dis-assembly and re-assembly. I have found this a common problem with some factory manuals. They are not written for the totally unknowing and assume the person has some prior experience and training with similar mechanisms
|
|
|
Post by scubadiverbob on Oct 23, 2007 11:04:09 GMT -8
Captain,
Good luck on finding the o-rings. I've found some dive equipment doesn't use standard parts. If I can't find an o-ring I try getting one a little smaller ID and a little bigger od and try it. That might not work with the Nik II as the compression of the o-ring provides the seal (the older the o-ring gets the easier they are to open). The only o-ring I've ever had flood on a Nik II was the one for the lens for the frame counter. Bummer was, it was in salt water. I was on a dive boat and didn't notice the problem until two hours after the camera had sit in the fresh water bucket, after my dive. The camera became a display at the LDS (local dive store).
The biggest problem I found with the manual was the english wasn't too understandable; being a certified Model 37 & 40 TTY repairman, I sort of understand the drawings.
Ok, back to Chucks orig. question. CC30R filters help with film above 15 ft. and if you stack a couple of them, 20 ft. When in algea infested river water, I don't use a strobe. Most of the salmon pictures I've posted were available light. The picture of Terry with the salmon he was holding, was in the Feather River, with available light at 15 to 20 ft. depth. If a SB101 strobe had been used, even at 1/4th power, the picture would have turned out 'green'. The other web-site mentioned for the "magic filters" for digital cameras appear to be for limited depth and fairly good to excellent visability. Don't know if they would even work for film cameras. I was looking to see if they actually had some type of "magic filters" for film cameras. Appearently they don't. Guess we're stuck with CC30R's for film. Only problem I've had with them, if I forget to remove the filter, and take above water pictures, everything ends up pink!
|
|
jviss
Pro Diver
Posts: 209
|
Post by jviss on Oct 24, 2007 5:56:33 GMT -8
On the O-ring size for the body, I would either ask Dan at Subaquatic Camera, or cut a used O-ring and carefully measure the length, then divide by Pi for diameter. That's correct, it would be one diameter off - so after cutting, subtract one cross sectional diameter from the O-ring diameter. In this case, assuming the O-ring diameter is nominally 6", you would have been off by .04", or 0.67%, probably well within the tolerances, and certainly within less than one of the standard size steps. Something this elastic, I wouldn't worry about it! As far as the old O-rings are concerned, you can determine by inspection if they are O.K. A serviceable O-ring should have no cracking at all, should be quite elastic, returning to same dimension when stretched, and should be round in cross section. Avoid sing flattened O-rings. They keep better if removed from the camera in storage (lens and body rings) and stored in the freezer. Another note, for airline travel, remove the lens O-ring and put it under the lens cap, so the body can breather at the lower pressure of the cabin at altitude and not pop out the film counter window O-ring (Nik II). So, anyway, I have a bunch of Nik II O-rings retired from service due to hardening or flattening, and also a bunch of new-old-stock Nik II O-rings kits that I purchased over the years, and also some in between. I'll measure one tonight if I can remember (Red Sox, you know), and I can drop one in an envelope for you - send me your address. jv
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2007 8:06:31 GMT -8
O rings should last for years if cared for correctly.....My Nikonos II's main body O ring was 40 years old and still servicable, however, SubAquatics did a maintenance job on it this last week and replaced my old good ring with a new ring......hope it is as good as the old one was.......... They also replaced my flash connector with a Nikonos III 3 pin..... Now with my 20mm lens and Novatec III I am set for 40 more years of good photos........if they still make film 40 years from now......ahhhh me...............
|
|
|
Post by duckbill on Oct 24, 2007 10:54:03 GMT -8
O rings should last for years if cared for correctly.....My Nikonos II's main body O ring was 40 years old and still servicable, however, SubAquatics did a maintenance job on it this last week and replaced my old good ring with a new ring......hope it is as good as the old one was.......... Always be sure to request that your old parts are returned to you.
|
|
|
Post by Captain on Oct 28, 2007 8:54:27 GMT -8
After extensive investigation this is what I have determined are the O ring sizes for the Nikonos ll body JIS (Japanese Industral Sandard) G-75, 74.4mm ID X 3.1mm C/S (2.929" ID x .122" C/S)
Lens mount JIS (Japanese Industral Sandard) P-44, 43.70mm ID X 3.50mm C/S (1.72"ID X .138" C/S)
or
US size 2-224 1.73" ID X .139" C/S The .001 difference between the US and the JIS is not enough to matter.
|
|
jviss
Pro Diver
Posts: 209
|
Post by jviss on Oct 28, 2007 12:49:56 GMT -8
What about the 0.010" difference in ID for the lens O-ring?
|
|
|
Post by Captain on Oct 28, 2007 15:15:47 GMT -8
Both sizes are slightly streched when mounted on the lens. The lens O ring groove diameter is 1.816 so the .010 difference in diameter is not an issue. The C/S is the more important dimension and it is .001 greater on the US O ring which would make a slightly tighter fit. After measuring numerous O rings of the same size there is some difference from one to the other because of production variences. On the P-44 the JIS specification tolerance is + or - .41mm (.016") for the diameter and + or - .1mm (.004") for the C/S. The diameter could range from 1.704 to 1.736 and C/S from .134 to .142 and still be in spec. The same would apply for the US O ring. So depending on which way the tolerance fell on a JIS and a US each could end up the same actual size.
|
|
|
Post by Captain on Oct 30, 2007 10:20:46 GMT -8
After studying and dis-assembling the Nikonos ll body I paid $10 for I was able to sucessfully change all the O rings on my like new Nikonos ll. It is not particularly difficult to change the shutter speed dial, winder shaft, rewind shaft, frame counter and rear viewfinder window O rings. I fabricared a small pin spanner from a screwdriver blade to remove the retaining nut on the shutter speed shaft. The only other tools needed were some jewelers screwdrivers, dental pick, tweezers, a small needle nose pliers and a popcicle stick. These were the needed O rings Rewind shaft, P-4 Shutter winder shaft, P-6 Shutter speed dial, P-7 Rear viewfinder window & flash sync plug, P-9 Framecounter window, P-12 Lens mount, P-44 Body, G-75
After replacing the O rings I subjected the body to a vacuum test using a test port plug I made that replaces the lens and a hand vacuum pump. The body held a vacuum of 27" Mg indefinately and I feel confident that it will not leak. All in all it was not that difficult and a lot cheaper than sending it off to one of the service facilities. Unfortunately the $10 body is not worth reconditioning as the shutter release does not work but it is a supply of spare parts if needed.
|
|