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Post by vance on Sept 17, 2019 15:15:32 GMT -8
CJ, Do you have a leaky second stage or a freeflow when the diaphragm is activated? If it's a hissing all the time, the lever nut might need to be backed off a bit because it is too tight and pulling the soft seat away from the volcano orifice. Or you have bad seat or volcano orifice. The problem with some of these seat holders is the nuts are nylocks or are glued on with polish or loctite. When you try to turn the nut, the seat holder just rotates. In that case, remove the second stage with the seat holder still assembled inside. You should be able to get the thing off lever and all? Hold the seat with something while you turn the nut.
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Post by crabbyjim on Sept 17, 2019 16:02:19 GMT -8
Update: hardware store did not have the wrench. The rubber seat has been installed. new issue, both regulators free flow when the ip is above 75 psi. Will I be able to fix this by backing off or moving the lock nut in when I find the round headed wrench? Will Dudley Doright return in time to save Nell from Snidely Whiplash? Oh, the horror!
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Post by nikeajax on Sept 17, 2019 16:07:44 GMT -8
CJ, yes, backing it off, counter clockwise will lessen the flow: try 1/4-turn adjustments... JB
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Post by SeaRat on Sept 17, 2019 16:30:49 GMT -8
CJ, Do you have a leaky second stage or a freeflow when the diaphragm is activated? If it's a hissing all the time, the lever nut might need to be backed off a bit because it is too tight and pulling the soft seat away from the volcano orifice. Or you have bad seat or volcano orifice. The problem with some of these seat holders is the nuts are nylocks or are glued on with polish or loctite. When you try to turn the nut, the seat holder just rotates. In that case, remove the second stage with the seat holder still assembled inside. You should be able to get the thing off lever and all? Hold the seat with something while you turn the nut. (emphasis added, jcr) Phil, What you are describing is the USD seat holder. The AMF Voit cannot be removed, as it is soldiered directly into the housing. The poppet seat come out toward the LP hose, and can be unscrewed from the regulator on the MR-12. But the poppet seat holder stays in place until that nut is removed. I cannot say for sure, but this is a locknut, and threefore AMF Voit, and hopefully the repair techs, do not use Loctite or nail polish on this regulator. The seat poppet must have the nut removed to get at the soft seat on this rugulator. Here are the photos I posted for Jim on Facebook: IMG_1266 by John Ratliff, on Flickr This is the wrench required; it is a 1/4 inch wrench that I procured about three decades ago. IMG_1267 by John Ratliff, on Flickr Here you can see my little, special wrench over this nut, but inside the lever arms of the LP lever. This is how to get that nut off. You can also see that the main piece to which it is attached is soldiered right to the case. Also, there is no rotation of the seat poppet, as it is square in a square hole (better than what USD did with theirs for years). 'Hope this helps. John PS, I just found this on E-Bay. Jaybird will like this, and may have one. "Vintage Dunlap 15/64" x 1/4" Carburetor Midget Combination Wrench--3-1/8" Long": www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Dunlap-15-64-x-1-4-Carburetor-Midget-Combination-Wrench-3-1-8-Long/372726659505?hash=item56c83d79b1:g:fCUAAOSwz4ZdQRnl:sc:USPSFirstClass!97006!US!-1
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Post by nikeajax on Sept 17, 2019 16:42:19 GMT -8
John, I couldn't remember if the Voit used the same as the satanic-USD-type, which I really hate: so they are more like the HW's and SW's: civilized!
CJ, you can get spot on sometimes by detaching the hose from the first stage and sucking on the end until you get a vacuum to hold your tongue while turning the nut: this is my method and it always works!
JB
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Post by vance on Sept 17, 2019 16:44:16 GMT -8
No, this is not rocket science. F'in A! Nut drivers, y'all! I will come down to your place and get this thing set up. Then we'll get a catfish po-boy.
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Post by SeaRat on Sept 17, 2019 17:05:45 GMT -8
John, I couldn't remember if the Voit used the same as the satanic-USD-type, which I really hate: so they are more like the HW's and SW's: civilized! CJ, you can get spot on sometimes by detaching the hose from the first stage and sucking on the end until you get a vacuum to hold your tongue while turning the nut: this is my method and it always works! JB So what you're saying, JB, as to hold the vacuum with your lungs while you turn the nut counter-clockwise to back it out so you get full spring tension on the seat. Is that correct? This will loosen the spring until it leaks, then back it back down. But in doing so, you get a lower spring tension, and Jim's already at 75 psig for leaking. I think he needs instead to tighten the spring a bit. What do you say? John PS, Gosh, I just realized that even my Dunlap wrench is "vintage." John
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Post by crabbyjim on Sept 17, 2019 17:17:14 GMT -8
John, your pictures show exactly what I am dealing with. Tomorrow I am off to my favorite auto parts store, where all of the parts guys are your age or older.
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Post by nikeajax on Sept 18, 2019 7:20:59 GMT -8
John, no, backing the nut off should lengthen the poppet, thus adding more pressure to the poppet seats: turning the nut clock-wise should shorten the poppet creating less pressure making the flow of air greater because it's pulling the seats away from each other more... But yes, I use my lungs to create a vacuum for my procedure CJ, try an auto parts store. JB
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Post by vance on Sept 18, 2019 7:44:36 GMT -8
Right, there are seat holder shafts that are square and don't turn in the hole. I'm not sure if all MR12 models had square shafts or if the early ones were round. And, right again, the hard seat would be removed to get at the bottom of the carrier, not the second stage body on the ones that are soldered in.
However, a nut driver or small socket will work better than a wrench if the ny-lock nut sits recessed in the second stage and you can't get the box end on it. Depressing the lever to raise it helps, but that can be awkward. I don't have one apart to look at, so this might not be a problem with the MR12.
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Post by crabbyjim on Sept 18, 2019 15:09:15 GMT -8
00766, the first model MR-12 VOIT Swimaster Titan II (patent pending, lp and hp ports unmarked) has been reassembled and hold pressure at 135 psi. Pool testing later this week. 46327, the AMF Swimaster MR-12, is causing me problems. I have been able to adjust the second stage regulating nut with a small pair of needle nose pliers but success eludes me.
One of the differences between them as illustrated in the schematics provided by Searat is that the later model does not reference the gasket, number 85-412 that fits between the first stage diaphragm and the spring base plate in the original. I have switched the second stage between the regulators; the 007 works well on each of them. The poppet assembly looks identical. I am stumped.
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Post by vance on Sept 18, 2019 15:33:00 GMT -8
I think my memory is correct here when I say you have two MR12 first stages. One has a Titan II second and the other an MR-12. I may be wrong to suggest this, but the Titan II second does not belong to that 1st stage. You should have a big ole Dacor Olympic-looking Titan II first stage on it like my conversions are based on. This should make no difference in whether or not the second stage works with either, though.
Edit: reading back in this thread, I noticed this issue has been addressed, and the MR-12 type first stage did come with the Titan II second stage.
Regardless, I would suggest that a gasket is needed between the diaphragm and the spring base plate (the big nut) on any of these MR12 type first stages. This pushes the plate out a bit away from the diaphragm. Sometimes a couple are needed to get the right IP setting.
You can't really expect to get this stuff right w/o an IP gauge. And you need one that incorporates a relief valve and a pressure bleed valve. Your first stage is malfunctioning, most likely, due to too much IP. There are several reasons why the IP might be too high or uncontrolled.
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Post by crabbyjim on Sept 18, 2019 16:12:24 GMT -8
Right, there are seat holder shafts that are square and don't turn in the hole. I'm not sure if all MR12 models had square shafts or if the early ones were round. And, right again, the hard seat would be removed to get at the bottom of the carrier, not the second stage body on the ones that are soldered in. However, a nut driver or small socket will work better than a wrench if the ny-lock nut sits recessed in the second stage and you can't get the box end on it. Depressing the lever to raise it helps, but that can be awkward. I don't have one apart to look at, so this might not be a problem with the MR12. Both of mine are square. I finally got the nut off with short needle nose pliers. Wiil take a grinder to the 1/4 inch short wrench tomorrow.
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Post by crabbyjim on Sept 18, 2019 16:39:37 GMT -8
I think my memory is correct here when I say you have two MR12 first stages. One has a Titan II second and the other an MR-12. I may be wrong to suggest this, but the Titan II second does not belong to that 1st stage. You should have a big ole Dacor Olympic-looking Titan II first stage on it like my conversions are based on. This should make no difference in whether or not the second stage works with either, though. Regardless, I would suggest that a gasket is needed between the diaphragm and the spring base plate (the big nut) on any of these MR12 type first stages. This pushes the plate out a bit away from the diaphragm. Sometimes a couple are needed to get the right IP setting. You can't really expect to get this stuff right w/o an IP gauge. And you need one that incorporates a relief valve and a pressure bleed valve. Your first stage is malfunctioning, most likely, due to too much IP. There are several reasons why the IP might be too high or uncontrolled. I have two complete MR-12’s. 00766 is the first model Voit Swimaster MR-12 Titan two. It looks like JB’s first picture posted on this thread and just like the original ad. The first stage is marked “pat. pending” and the lp and hp ports are not marked. The second, labeled ‘AMF Swimaster”, serial number 4xxxx, has a patent number and the ports are labeled. The second stage on 007 works on either first stage. (Yes, I use an ip gauge with appropriate pressure release mechanisms.) I’ll try the gasket idea tomorrow. .
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Voit MR12
Sept 19, 2019 8:38:35 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by crabbyjim on Sept 19, 2019 8:38:35 GMT -8
Does the MR-12 have non-standard fittings on the lp hose between the first and second stages?
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