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Post by vance on Apr 18, 2024 13:52:28 GMT -8
That's awesome, Pawel!
How many of the components did you make, or have made? Are the manifold parts, fittings, SPG connection, back mounted BCD, front mounted tank pack and harness, etc., available from manufacturers?
The chest tank mount looks like a custom part. Did you make it? It's really a nice piece!
Also, the third air bottle. Is that a bailout bottle and regulator that is independent of the primary tanks/regulator setup?
BTW, I sport a very similar beard!
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Post by pabloo on Apr 18, 2024 22:44:04 GMT -8
Hello Vance Well, all parts are available, some used originally, some modified, only the harness was made by me. The first idea was to make & use "fully historical" set consist only vintage parts which makes some complications. Small vintage 2-3 liters tanks for 150-200 bar have (even now) 17E thread in the cylinder throat so I have to use 17E vintage valves which are not available as brand new now. They are mostly mounted on to vintage cylinders for years and are often damaged during unscrewing. I collect some vintage parts for years and have got two, 2 liters ,150 bar, carbon steel heavy tanks from 65'-70'so now just waiting for good condition valves set with manifold, manometer and reserve...It will takes some time but I will have fully "vintage set" As I can't wait so long to try it so I made set from various parts I already have or I have to find to fold them in to one: I used 2 liters , 200 bar lightweight oxy cylinders from firefighting apparatus, manifold and "T" joint to connect both regulators. I try to keep size compact as possible - "T" joint set DH directly on to my chest. The second regulator has HP port for manometer hose but I mount it directly on to port. As shoved when put other gauges together all is well visible like on car console and you have "free" hands for other diving equipment. The tank mount is originally from P-22 set. By it's shape fits as well on the back as on the belly - I had only to make holes in it for cylinder quick mounting straps...which are from another original 80' single tank set You can use any BCD or wing with it, also apparatus can be mounted directly with tank mount (without strap harness) to BCD or your diving harness D rings by buckles...It can be even more comfortable to wear, I will check Previous version of apparatus was used shortly after DH tuning for few up to 3 meters "check dives" always without BCD If BCD will be used the 3rd air bottle (0,35-0,5L x 200bar) can be attached for inflation to save breathing air. It can have independent reg but also can be connected 'directly" as was on "horse collar"...will see what works better. I already have brand new 2,5 liter 200 bar tanks so it will be around 1000L of air so I count approx dive time with this air volume and consumption 25 L/min + 5 min reserve at a given depth. 2m / 28 +5min 3m / 25 +5min 4m / 23 +5min 5m / 21 +5min 6m / 20 +5min 10m / 15 +5min 12m / 13 +5min 15m / 10 +5min 20m / 8 +5min 30m / 5 +5min In the range of "oxygen operating depth" up to 6 m, with SAC 25-18L/min, apparatus provides approx 20-30 minutes of operational time + 5 minutes of reserve. It's up to 30 min of shallow water dive as was planned with oxy ccr before Best Pawel
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Post by spirou on Apr 21, 2024 7:29:23 GMT -8
Hello Vance Well, all parts are available, some used originally, some modified, only the harness was made by me. The first idea was to make & use "fully historical" set consist only vintage parts which makes some complications. Small vintage 2-3 liters tanks for 150-200 bar have (even now) 17E thread in the cylinder throat so I have to use 17E vintage valves which are not available as brand new now. They are mostly mounted on to vintage cylinders for years and are often damaged during unscrewing. I collect some vintage parts for years and have got two, 2 liters ,150 bar, carbon steel heavy tanks from 65'-70'so now just waiting for good condition valves set with manifold, manometer and reserve...It will takes some time but I will have fully "vintage set" As I can't wait so long to try it so I made set from various parts I already have or I have to find to fold them in to one: I used 2 liters , 200 bar lightweight oxy cylinders from firefighting apparatus, manifold and "T" joint to connect both regulators. I try to keep size compact as possible - "T" joint set DH directly on to my chest. The second regulator has HP port for manometer hose but I mount it directly on to port. As shoved when put other gauges together all is well visible like on car console and you have "free" hands for other diving equipment. The tank mount is originally from P-22 set. By it's shape fits as well on the back as on the belly - I had only to make holes in it for cylinder quick mounting straps...which are from another original 80' single tank set You can use any BCD or wing with it, also apparatus can be mounted directly with tank mount (without strap harness) to BCD or your diving harness D rings by buckles...It can be even more comfortable to wear, I will check Previous version of apparatus was used shortly after DH tuning for few up to 3 meters "check dives" always without BCD If BCD will be used the 3rd air bottle (0,35-0,5L x 200bar) can be attached for inflation to save breathing air. It can have independent reg but also can be connected 'directly" as was on "horse collar"...will see what works better. I already have brand new 2,5 liter 200 bar tanks so it will be around 1000L of air so I count approx dive time with this air volume and consumption 25 L/min + 5 min reserve at a given depth. 2m / 28 +5min 3m / 25 +5min 4m / 23 +5min 5m / 21 +5min 6m / 20 +5min 10m / 15 +5min 12m / 13 +5min 15m / 10 +5min 20m / 8 +5min 30m / 5 +5min In the range of "oxygen operating depth" up to 6 m, with SAC 25-18L/min, apparatus provides approx 20-30 minutes of operational time + 5 minutes of reserve. It's up to 30 min of shallow water dive as was planned with oxy ccr before Best Pawel Hello Pawel Thanks a lot, for all photos that you post. Your little twin set, is very compact, it is amazing with the "front pack" that you fixed . I don't know when, but I am gone try to test a config as closed as possible like yours. Cheer's Fred
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Post by pabloo on Apr 23, 2024 8:10:17 GMT -8
Pabloo, That is going to be really nice to dive. John Hello John I am thinking about chest mounted DH Dacor "Dial-A-Breath" regulator... I don't have one so I can't try is this idea has any practical sense. I am not a specialist of air flow but probably it will give possibility to "tune" the regulator air flow characteristic in "lifetime" without unscrew reg any time...it's "crazy work" so I am thinking how to make it easier Some "basic tune" have to be done before to remove "air blasts" which are possible on the chest mount with "standard" regulation. What do you think about that John with your "Dial-A-Breath" experience ... is this lever regulation will makes any difference ? Could you try something like that on the pool with small tank and Dacor on the chest ... I am very interesting of that. Best Pawel
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Post by SeaRat on Apr 23, 2024 11:34:34 GMT -8
Pabloo, That is going to be really nice to dive. John Hello John I am thinking about chest mounted DH Dacor "Dial-A-Breath" regulator... I don't have one so I can't try is this idea has any practical sense. I am not a specialist of air flow but probably it will give possibility to "tune" the regulator air flow characteristic in "lifetime" without unscrew reg any time...it's "crazy work" so I am thinking how to make it easier Some "basic tune" have to be done before to remove "air blasts" which are possible on the chest mount with "standard" regulation. What do you think about that John with your "Dial-A-Breath" experience ... is this lever regulation will makes any difference ? Could you try something like that on the pool with small tank and Dacor on the chest ... I am very interesting of that. Best Pawel Pawel, We are not quite at the season for diving, but it is getting close. Yes, this may be something i can try with my Dacor Dial-A-Breath, as it’s Venturi can be “feathered” externally. But I’ll have to get the setup correct and see what I can do. I’ll report back later. John
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Post by pabloo on Apr 23, 2024 23:32:35 GMT -8
Hello John Thank you, it's nothing urgent. I am very interesting of effect maybe even no need to pre-correct the regulator before chest use...just set the Venturi to the minimum ? It will be great if you ever find the time and inclination to do that as the Dacor looks the best fot check. Stay safe John Regards Pawel
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Post by vance on Apr 24, 2024 8:28:54 GMT -8
Pawel, There's the early Dial-a-Breath R-3, and there's are later models with the DAB feature, like the R-4 and a couple others. The difference in the performance of an R-3 and an R-4 will be considerable due to the different second stage designs. R-4: R-3:
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Post by pabloo on Apr 24, 2024 23:59:14 GMT -8
Hello Vance
As I have already mentioned, for me Sam Davison is one of the most fascinating visionaries and designers of diving equipment.
In this particular case, I was thinking only about the "Dial-A-Breath" lever, disregarding the design differences of the reduction stages. The lever is simple mechanical in design and operation and it allows to adjust the Venturi effect in real time... am I right?
The lever - from what I can see, deflects / throttles the air stream flowing from the nozzle directly to the inhalation hose. I don't know how effective it is, so I want to consult it with you because you have experience and can check it with the reducer on the chest position.
I want to install such an externally controlled lever in one of my Kaiman regulator, but I don't know how well it works in practice.
Regards Paul
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Post by vance on Apr 26, 2024 9:26:15 GMT -8
Yes, it's a simple vane that blocks the air stream from going straight into the intake horn. It is pretty effective, but I don't have any data. Here's a photo of the outside knob: IMG_4299 by Vancetp, on Flickr
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Post by SeaRat on Apr 26, 2024 10:16:39 GMT -8
Paul,
I just e-mailed you a couple of documents from the U.S. Navy Experimental Diving Unit on the Dacor Dial-A-Breath, and their evaluation of a number of regulators.
Concerning the Dial-A-Breath feature, I remember reading in one of the ducuments that the Navy divers did not like the Venturi feature, figuring it made them use too much air, and so wolud tone it down. They did like it. But in testing, that regulator did not do well.
I remember in 1959 testing one, as a teenager, to see whether it was what I wanted to buy for my first regulator. It had the Dial-A-Breath feature, and with the orginal hoses it would continue to flow on inhalation when I removed my mouth while inhaling. I decided with the higher price not to buy it, as the Healthways original Scuba was the better deal for me, and I liked its inhalation flow.
That Dial-A-Breath feature, which divers liked, but which the Navy did not like (EDU, that is) was also on a few R-4 regulators, and on my C-3 Clipper.
John
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Post by nikeajax on Apr 26, 2024 10:48:16 GMT -8
Concerning the Dial-A-Breath feature, I remember reading in one of the ducuments that the Navy divers did not like the Venturi feature, figuring it made them use too much air, and so wolud tone it down. They did like it. But in testing, that regulator did not do well. John "Hey, somethin's wrong here: I don't have to think about my breathing, we'd better change that..." It's not a wonder that people thought/think diving is so dangerous: the public is so unwilling to relinquish old ideas and preconceived-notions. JB
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Post by vance on Apr 26, 2024 11:22:15 GMT -8
As for "real time" adjustments, if you could reach it you could, I guess. I think a buddy would need to do the adjusting.
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Post by pabloo on Apr 27, 2024 2:39:24 GMT -8
Hello The chest mount has another advantage here because the knob can be extended and a some kind lever added to make it easily accessible from the front of the set...something like that. The design and operation of the Dacor's deflector is brilliant because it does not interfere with the reducer itself, so it is safe. I'm curious to what extent it will work in Kaiman... we'll see. Have a nice weekend gents Best Pawel
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Post by SeaRat on May 1, 2024 17:48:36 GMT -8
Today, I put together my chest-mounting system to test the Dacor R-4 on it. I had not been inclined to do so since my years-ago test in open water that went haywire. I had problems because I was using the Dacor Nautilus Constant Volume System (CVS) BCD along with the chest-mounted Royal Aquamaster, and I had lost the lead weights. This led to a lot of problem along with the chest-mounted system. So today, I took two LP hoses (damaged, I cannot use them in water), and put the hoses on a Dacor Olympic 400 first stage. I got that setup working (it initially leaked like a seive, and I needed to find my cresent wrenches to tighten the connection). Here's the Sherwood center manifold section I modified years ago to accept two LP hoses: IMG_1045 by John Ratliff, on Flickr You can see the center modified section as the bottom piece in the above photo. I don't have a photo of the actual setup, but I had put two hoses on the first stage, and connected them with that Sherwood center section. I could then mount the regulator onto the modified manifold center section, so that it was independent of the first stage and tank valve. I did initial breathing tests on the Dacor R-4, expecting a problem; there wasn't a problem. I got a lot of air out of the system. Upon a hard inhalation, I did feel some drag, then I noticed that I had not opened the tank valve all the way. I decided to see whether my Healthways hybrid Scuba regulator would work on this system; it won’t. It had a lot of resistance that the Dacor R-4 did not have. So I think I have a usable system for some open water testing (I don't currently have a pool available). This will be a very careful test, in shallow water in the Tualatin River (not the Clackamas Rivre, with its higher current). John
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Post by pabloo on May 2, 2024 3:00:26 GMT -8
Hi John I keep my fingers crossed for you Good luck Pawel
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