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Post by Michel on May 17, 2019 9:07:09 GMT -8
Greetings fellow 'vintagists', it's been awhile since I've posted but have remained faithful to my vintage collection and re-builds. Recently I picked up yet another grab bag of parts, some NOS and some not so new to continue my inventory of dh parts (usd only) and have a usd diaphragm in good shape but that the tab plate has detached.I completely separated the two parts carefully with no tears and now want to re-attach the plate so as not to waste a good serviceable 2stage diaphragm.I was thinking of 'AquaSeal' or perhaps an automotive weather striping glue but thought I'd reach out to the members for your opinions and or past experience? Any ideas? Thanks, Michel.
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Post by nikeajax on May 17, 2019 10:55:23 GMT -8
Bonjour Michel. John seems to like Shoegoo, and others have used RTV: be sure to let it completely off gas though! If it were mine though, I'd use some kind of rivet, perhaps a small piece of plastic that I've mushroomed the ends on with something hot, or maybe a metal rivet? I mention this because Voit had their MR-12 diaphragms and the will very easily de-laminate, they never used a rivet, so they recalled them... Jaybird
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Post by scubalawyer on May 17, 2019 13:31:00 GMT -8
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2019 14:48:06 GMT -8
If your's are USD, there should be a lip that fits around the edge of the disc. I pulled one of mine apart recently as it was coming apart anyway and it looked like USD used neoprene cement. Any rubber type glue should work on the old rubber diaphragms, but if it is a new silicon one, Gorilla Glue will work as well as most other silicone sealants.
Just make sure that lip is back over the edge of the disc, a rivet should not be needed. And let it degas.....it has all sorts of good stuff not good for people to breath until dry.
By the way, I use a super neoprene glue made by 3M for auto windshields....called Black Super Weatherstrip Adhesive. Walmart carries it but in France? Good question on that.
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Post by SeaRat on May 17, 2019 20:18:27 GMT -8
I like what Ol' Mossback says about the diaphragm. But while I like ShoeGoo for some things, I think that wet suit neoprene cement would work well in this application, and is probably what U.S. Divers Company used originally.
John
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Post by Michel on May 18, 2019 6:51:32 GMT -8
Merci a tout le monde mes amis! Many of you may have forgotten that I am French Canadian not a French citizen but am fluently bilingual having picked up English as a young boy in Quebec! along with my love of underwater exploration and everything 'Jacues-Yves Cousteau'. Coming back to diaphragms it would seem that all of you share my assumptions concerning glues which might be appropriate. I think USD probably used neoprene glue (black)back in the day and it would certainly work today and even better since glue technology has probably advanced quite bit.Aqua-Seal makes a good one for neoprene wet-suits and 3M has got some very advanced stuff for rubber to metal adhesion.Rivets were only used in the early regs and some very early Broxtons with non neoprene diaphragms, I don't know about other manufacturers. Letting the glues set and gas off are of course 'de rigueur' for safe breathing and I will let you know what I decide on and report back with my results, any more suggestions are of course much appreciated. N.B. To all my American cousins let it be known that my American flag has never touched the ground again since my last 'faux pas'! Michel.
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Post by nikeajax on May 18, 2019 7:05:49 GMT -8
Michel, I mentioned the rivet because I don't own a USD double hose, and didn't realize they have that holder-onner lip thingy (flange), so I have my own fox paws
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Post by SeaRat on May 18, 2019 15:18:28 GMT -8
Merci a tout le monde mes amis! Many of you may have forgotten that I am French Canadian not a French citizen but am fluently bilingual having picked up English as a young boy in Quebec! along with my love of underwater exploration and everything 'Jacues-Yves Cousteau'. Coming back to diaphragms it would seem that all of you share my assumptions concerning glues which might be appropriate. I think USD probably used neoprene glue (black)back in the day and it would certainly work today and even better since glue technology has probably advanced quite bit.Aqua-Seal makes a good one for neoprene wet-suits and 3M has got some very advanced stuff for rubber to metal adhesion.Rivets were only used in the early regs and some very early Broxtons with non neoprene diaphragms, I don't know about other manufacturers. Letting the glues set and gas off are of course 'de rigueur' for safe breathing and I will let you know what I decide on and report back with my results, any more suggestions are of course much appreciated. N.B. To all my American cousins let it be known that my American flag has never touched the ground again since my last 'faux pas'! Michel. Since this is a vintage scuba site, I don't think a lot of people remember how black neoprene cement is supposed to be used. 1. You coat each side with the cement. 2. Let it dry completely. 3. Coat each side again. 4. Let it dry until tacky. 5. Stick each side together. Note: you need to be exact, as once one side touches the other, it's together. In this case, with a metal diaphragm, do the above, and put the plate under the lip first on one side, then work it from there around the entire diaphragm until it is stuck together and under the rubber lip. Don't apply cement to the lip, so as to simply let it slide into place as you work the diaphragm around the metal disc. John PS, if you use this technique, you won't need to worry about off-gasing, as most of the cement has already off-gassed at the time of bonding.
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Post by technidiver on May 18, 2019 15:48:26 GMT -8
Merci a tout le monde mes amis! Many of you may have forgotten that I am French Canadian not a French citizen but am fluently bilingual having picked up English as a young boy in Quebec! along with my love of underwater exploration and everything 'Jacues-Yves Cousteau'. Coming back to diaphragms it would seem that all of you share my assumptions concerning glues which might be appropriate. I think USD probably used neoprene glue (black)back in the day and it would certainly work today and even better since glue technology has probably advanced quite bit.Aqua-Seal makes a good one for neoprene wet-suits and 3M has got some very advanced stuff for rubber to metal adhesion.Rivets were only used in the early regs and some very early Broxtons with non neoprene diaphragms, I don't know about other manufacturers. Letting the glues set and gas off are of course 'de rigueur' for safe breathing and I will let you know what I decide on and report back with my results, any more suggestions are of course much appreciated. N.B. To all my American cousins let it be known that my American flag has never touched the ground again since my last 'faux pas'! Michel. A fellow Canadian Brother! Your anglais is "beacoup"! Michel, if you're ever interested in having a Canadians vintage dive meet, let me know. I'm in Toronto, ON. My suggestion is the black RTV silicone adhesive from Home Hardware. I've used that on many scuba projects and it works well. I think it was in the automotive section. TD
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Post by Michel on May 19, 2019 11:28:27 GMT -8
Thanks TD,Always nice to hear from a fellow enemy (Anglo)Canuk especially one who knows 2 words of French LOL! But now seriously folks! It would seem that a cursive review of one of my 1971 USD repair manuals page 15 for the AM that 'if the rubber is separating from the metal plate, clean both surfaces with rubber solvent and re-glue with weatherstrip cement.'confirming John's opinion. Also neoprene cement is also mentioned in other parts of the manual so it's a good bet that it's not rocket science just good prep and a good moisture resistant adhesive. TD let me know if you have duplicate parts you might want to trade for stuff I have you may need or vice versa. Michel.
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Post by Michel on Jun 6, 2019 17:01:04 GMT -8
Quick update: Decided on 3M Weatherstrip adhesive(black)to glue metal plates back to diaphragm. Worked well on small areas of a lip separation but noticed that glue is thick and difficult to manipulate even when using a small pencil brush.As I explained I have 2 other diaphragms which I took completely apart and cleaned and attempted to go ahead with one complete re-glueing!Complete disaster! Because the product is thick it interferes with the fit and prevents the surfaces to bond smoothly. It was only with quick action and mineral spirits applied 'stat' that I was able to separate the plate and clean off the goo to save the diaphragm! I will have to find a more suitable glue which can be painted on smoothly and thinly in order for this to work, I will continue to experiment carefully and up date on results! Back to my laboratory, Michel.
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Post by SeaRat on Jun 6, 2019 17:10:10 GMT -8
Quick update: Decided on 3M Weatherstrip adhesive(black)to glue metal plates back to diaphragm. Worked well on small areas of a lip separation but noticed that glue is thick and difficult to manipulate even when using a small pencil brush.As I explained I have 2 other diaphragms which I took completely apart and cleaned and attempted to go ahead with one complete re-glueing!Complete disaster! Because the product is thick it interferes with the fit and prevents the surfaces to bond smoothly. It was only with quick action and mineral spirits applied 'stat' that I was able to separate the plate and clean off the goo to save the diaphragm! I will have to find a more suitable glue which can be painted on smoothly and thinly in order for this to work, I will continue to experiment carefully and up date on results! Back to my laboratory, Michel. I still think neoprene cement will do this job. It does apply thinly too. John
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Post by vance on Jun 6, 2019 17:30:16 GMT -8
Quick update: Decided on 3M Weatherstrip adhesive(black)to glue metal plates back to diaphragm. Worked well on small areas of a lip separation but noticed that glue is thick and difficult to manipulate even when using a small pencil brush.As I explained I have 2 other diaphragms which I took completely apart and cleaned and attempted to go ahead with one complete re-glueing!Complete disaster! Because the product is thick it interferes with the fit and prevents the surfaces to bond smoothly. It was only with quick action and mineral spirits applied 'stat' that I was able to separate the plate and clean off the goo to save the diaphragm! I will have to find a more suitable glue which can be painted on smoothly and thinly in order for this to work, I will continue to experiment carefully and up date on results! Back to my laboratory, Michel. I still think neoprene cement will do this job. It does apply thinly too. John I found a superglue that was wonderous on neoprene. It works unbelievably well on neoprene parts. You might give it a try as it is cheap. Here's the description: 04-143B-TF; Black toughened Cyanoacrylate Adhesive 300 Viscosity 2 gm vial Email: oring@theoringstore.com order page: www.theoringstore.com/index.php?main_page=featured_products&zenid=c0f6a1a4a64e750d19de6b90cd89787b
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Post by Michel on Jun 6, 2019 17:34:30 GMT -8
Thanks John, I think you are right.I'm going to try AquaSeal next which is the now go-to neoprene cement from what I have read. Michel.
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Post by Michel on Jun 6, 2019 17:36:58 GMT -8
Oh oh! I should have said : thanks Vance, I'll look into it for sure. Michel
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