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Post by vance on Sept 3, 2019 16:31:21 GMT -8
This is an interesting regulator. It has a very simple second stage which is a hard seat with an LP seat/lever at 90 degrees from the intake air horn. Like the HW Scuba/Deluxe, it pressurized the box w/o any venturi action. Results were not so good. This was the predecessor to the R-3 Dial-a-Breath, which had the same lever LP soft seat/LP hard seat arrangement, but it was aligned directly toward the intake horn. Edit: This regulator and it's siblings, the R-1 and R-3, were designated the 2500 series. Here's the R-2:  It's pretty amazing to me that the OG's thought that air was being wasted by a venturi, and they wanted a throttle (Dial-a-Breath) to make sure they were getting plenty of bottom time. Those guys were tough.... |
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Post by SeaRat on Sept 3, 2019 18:55:22 GMT -8
The R-2 was designed on a kitchen table too.
More later.
John
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Post by nikeajax on Sept 4, 2019 7:05:03 GMT -8
Phil, I have yet to try anything other than a C-3 for a DH, but I can tell you that their Dart series was really doggy too as far as a very hard breathing reg. You're all too aware that you need to inhale...
JB
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Post by vance on Sept 4, 2019 7:45:49 GMT -8
When I took the top off of the R-2, I was momentarily confused, thinking something was missing... The R-3 looks more conventional. Here's an R-3:  Note the second stage is right in line with the intake horn. It's better than 90 degrees away, but still not very effective since the air blasts straight up and into the soft seat. You can see the "Dial-A-Breath" vane is turned to "easy". And here's the lever/soft seat and the hard seat the R-1,2,3 use:   |
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Post by vance on Sept 4, 2019 8:06:34 GMT -8
The 1" mouthpiece these came with did not help deliver plentiful air. The tiny non-return valves were buried inside the mouthpiece with a rubber flange that held them in. The flange further restricted the opening.  Although the wws and non-return mushrooms were the same size as the Healthways Scubas I believe them to be even harder breathing hoseloops because of the flange. You can see how it rolls over the end of the mp. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the R-1,2,3 series was only offered with the 1" hoseloop. I know people fitted 1 1/4" Dacor hoses and MPs later on. Does anyone know for sure? [EDIT: The 1 1/4" hoses and mouthpiece with large non-returns was offered in 1961, making it correct for the late R-3s.] |
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Post by tomcatpc on Sept 4, 2019 9:16:50 GMT -8
Is that "all there is" to the "Dial-a Breath" feature? Just a "rudder/wind vane" that "impedes or not" the flow of air?
Mark
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Post by vance on Sept 4, 2019 11:32:28 GMT -8
Is that "all there is" to the "Dial-a Breath" feature? Just a "rudder/wind vane" that "impedes or not" the flow of air? Mark Yes, it's just a knob attached to that vane which turns 90 degrees to provide incremental positions from "hard" and "harder"  . The somewhat hopeful (or delusional) label says "easy" and "hard". |
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Post by vance on Sept 4, 2019 11:33:53 GMT -8
The R-2 is not an easy breather, no matter what hoseloop is used. The R-3 isn't bad (or great, either), but only when it has larger diameter hoseloop on it. It is comparable to a Scuba or Deluxe on inhalation effort, and more like a Scuba with a duckbill on exhalation effort.
The levers could benefit from some artful bending. There are little bumps made into the levers, but the point of interface is often the sharp edge of the end rather than the bump. I am experimenting with bends to get smoother contact points that are on on the bumps, and polishing the spots where the levers meet each other and the diaphragm plate. Bending is a bit tricky since the bends are also the lever height adjustment.
Perhaps a setscrew type adjuster mod could be done. I saw a mod (in John's Dacor thread?) that had a USD type seat carrier installed on the lever which might have legs as an adjusting scheme.
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Post by nikeajax on Sept 4, 2019 13:21:37 GMT -8
Or perhaps, "Difficult-->No freaking way!"  JB |
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Post by SeaRat on Sept 4, 2019 16:03:40 GMT -8
Or perhaps, "Difficult-->No freaking way!" JB Not really; the R-3 Dial-a-Breath feature was used be U.S. Navy divers during testing to slightly de-tune the Venturi, so that the regulator would not free-flow when taken out of the mouth during an inhalation. The original, new R-3 was a pretty good Breathing regulator. I put my R-3 hoses back onto my R-2 and took a few test breaths off it. It really is not bad for breathing effort. I have a theory about the placement of the nozzle at the 3:00 position, and that is that this asymmetric flow actually does induce a slight Venturi, by having one flow be hit by the other at a slight time variance, forcing the one going the shorter distance down the intake hose. It seems to be a better flow that the DA Aqualung, where the nozzle sits at the 6:00 position, and both flows collide right at the intake horn, causing a lot of turbulance. It's just a theory, but could explain the reason the Dacor R-2's nozzle is at 3:00 the position. Vance is correct about the hose/mouthpiece loop on these regulators. The first two versions were bad, and the third version (R-4), was not as good as the USD hose/mouthpiece loop (the "Kleer-Easy" mouthpiece. John |
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Post by vance on Sept 4, 2019 16:19:36 GMT -8
Or perhaps, "Difficult-->No freaking way!" JB I put my R-3 hoses back onto my R-2 and took a few test breaths off it. This might be what I want to know: Did the R-3 come with 1 1/4" hoseloops, or only 1"? What is the difference between your R-3 and R-2 hoses? |
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Post by vance on Sept 4, 2019 16:27:53 GMT -8
The R-2,3 Dacor regs I see on eBay often have 1 1/4" hoseloops on them (I have never seen an R-1. If I did, I'd jump on it!). I don't think the 1 1/4" hoseloops were ever offered OEM for the R-1,2,3. I think the R-1,2,3 regs were only set up with 1" hoseloops. I believe that the 1 1/4" loops were an R-4 improvement that many users installed on their R-1,2,3s to improve performance. Pls correct me if I am wrong.
[Edit: Answered in previous post.]
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Post by SeaRat on Sept 4, 2019 18:33:53 GMT -8
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Post by vance on Sept 5, 2019 10:26:26 GMT -8
Thanks for the links to those reports, John. I get the impression that the 1st report was an R-1 or 2 (no Dial-a-Breath feature) with 1" hoses, mouthpiece, and non-return valves. The report states that breathing resistance is very high at all depths. No hoseloop size was mentioned that I saw, but I'll assume they were the small hoseloops.
The second report was the Dial-a-Breath evaluation. The is probably the R-3, since there is a separate R-4 evaluation. The report mentions a minimum internal diameter of the mouthpiece as 1 1/2", so this is probably the larger size hoseloop. I hear people describe them as 1 1/2" hoses, but they are smaller than the USD 1 1/2" hoseloops, so I've always considered them 1 1/4". So, I will assume the R-3 was available with the larger hoses as well as the smaller ones. The Navy did not accept the R-3s performance.
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Post by SeaRat on Sept 5, 2019 12:22:15 GMT -8
The R-3 started out with the smaller hoses, and switch mid-production to the larger ones. My source is The Journal of Diving History. I'll get you the exact quote later, along with the exact reference. This magazing ran a complete article on the history of Dacor double hose regulators, along with probable serial numbers for each model.
By the way, the first one, the R-2 I think, which passed the U.S. Navy tests, were before more rigorous testing methods were used in regulator evaluations. And, the "Dial-A-Breath" feature may have hurt them in these evaluations, as the look at worst-case scenarios.
I tested my R-2 against the USD Aqualung (Green Label Broxton), and found them comparible in initial and hard inhalation resistance. The Aqualung had better (lower) exhalation resistance due to using the duckbill rather than the Dacor mushroom valve. Dacor later, in the last productions of their double hose regs, went to a duckbill exhaust after the Aqualung patent ran out.
John
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. The somewhat hopeful (or delusional) label says "easy" and "hard".
