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Post by herman on Jan 15, 2020 3:33:21 GMT -8
This brings up the question, are they actually high quality professionals? I once took a cert class for a major manuf of scuba equipment. There were no prereqs other than you had to be working in a shop that was authorized to sell their regs. It consisted of about 2 hours in a small room where we took 1 of their first and second stages apart BY HAND- no tools, they were just hand tight and then put it back together by hand. No discussion of theory of operation, no adjustments, no testing, not even testing to see if it leaked. Looking around the room, it was obvious that I was about the only one in there that actually understood how regs worked. This was nothing more than monkey see, monkey do, yet the monkeys walked out of the room a fully authorized service tech for the company. If liability is really that big of an issue and techs need a lot of training, there is no way this kind of thing could go on. The manuf is still in business. Don't get me wrong there are some good classes and some great techs, I am lucky to be near a shop with a great professional staff but the idea that all techs are well trained and know what they are doing is a joke.
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Post by cnotthoff on Jan 15, 2020 9:11:28 GMT -8
Well, you're not going to get an argument from me about the ability of some certified technicians. I've been to dozens of repair clinics. I've seen many clueless dive shop employees walk out with the same piece of paper that I got. It's a good place to start (maybe like entry-level diver certification).
My doctor once told me that he could perform a procedure, but it would be a first time for him too. He recommended someone with more experience. I start out new techs servicing our rentals, while I oversee. Hopefully other shops follow a similar procedure.
Yea DB, I piss off members of my family because I insist on doing things myself. I'm still aggravated by the toilet that was installed a couple of degrees off square after our bathroom remodel. I keep telling my wife that if I say I'll do, I'll do it. There's no need to remind me every 6 months.
It's always great to see a bunch of divers who appreciate and maintain the gear they dive with.
Good Dives, Charlie
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Post by nikeajax on Jan 15, 2020 9:24:14 GMT -8
...I'm still aggravated by the toilet that was installed a couple of degrees off square after our bathroom remodel... Good Dives, Charlie Charlie, those flanges should be adjustable: the ones I've seen are only held onto the floor with screws. It also might just be the case of loosening the nuts and twisting the whole thing... As Phil sez, "Jus' sayin'..." JB
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Post by cnotthoff on Jan 15, 2020 13:16:33 GMT -8
Jay, They caulked the entire toilet base, so that would have to be removed. There's a fair amount controversy in the plumbing community about caulking the base of a toilet. Since the plumbing seal comes from the wax ring, any caulking around the base can seal in water and cause rot. See, divers aren't the only ones who can argue about seemingly silly things.
Good Dives, Charlie
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Post by nikeajax on Jan 15, 2020 13:57:20 GMT -8
Me likes caulk, works like gloo, gloo good for hold downz turlets...JB
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Post by crabbyjim on Jan 15, 2020 16:34:18 GMT -8
That must be an old picture of you, but you’re still recognizable. Who’s the other guy?
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Post by nikeajax on Jan 15, 2020 17:14:24 GMT -8
CJ, put yer glasses back on, cuz that's you!
JB
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Post by SeaRat on Jan 16, 2020 23:31:17 GMT -8
Well, you're not going to get an argument from me about the ability of some certified technicians. I've been to dozens of repair clinics. I've seen many clueless dive shop employees walk out with the same piece of paper that I got. It's a good place to start (maybe like entry-level diver certification). My doctor once told me that he could perform a procedure, but it would be a first time for him too. He recommended someone with more experience. I start out new techs servicing our rentals, while I oversee. Hopefully other shops follow a similar procedure. Yea DB, I piss off members of my family because I insist on doing things myself. I'm still aggravated by the toilet that was installed a couple of degrees off square after our bathroom remodel. I keep telling my wife that if I say I'll do, I'll do it. There's no need to remind me every 6 months. It's always great to see a bunch of divers who appreciate and maintain the gear they dive with. Good Dives, Charlie Charlie, You bring up some good points. But it would be nice if the scuba courses took some of the mystery out of regulators, and gave students basic information about their regulators. Mi think some do, but apparently some don't too. Keeping divers dependent on outside experts for some thing like how to remove the cover to ensure that the second stage doesn't have bad things inside seems to be prudent, but I've heard that this isn't done sometimes now. John
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Post by vance on Jan 18, 2020 10:25:28 GMT -8
I guess my stance on working on my own regulators is clear.
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Post by SeaRat on Jan 18, 2020 13:07:27 GMT -8
Liability is a risk. It doesn’t make any sense. It’s all about who can successfully sue you for something by convincing a jury that they should feel sorry for the plaintiff. I sell regulators on eBay. I’m going to stop as soon as I get rid of the stuff I don’t want, hopefully before someone decides I’m responsible for killing whoever bought a regulator from me despite the disclaimer I have added to every auction saying that they need to be sure they are qualified to use the equipment, have training in the use of dh regulators, and have had the equipment inspected by a qualified tech. l’m sure a competent attorney can tear that disclaimer to shreds. I just read an article about unserialed and unregistered ar15 lowers and how attorneys are claiming they aren’t receivers, which is the definition of a firearm. One attorney said he was glad his felon client got off of a possession rap, but said he’s concerned “as a citizen” that this kind of loophole exists. WTF!!! I own guns and don’t mean to start a 2nd amendment debate. I’m only pointing out the idiocy of our legal system. Granted that the legal system is weird, but I don't think you have any worries about being sued. You have a disclaimer, and try to ensure that anyone who buys your "stuff" is sufficiently trained o use it. That's right there, in your ad. So relax a bit on this. I think we can just make sure that people know we're working with "vintage," antiques, and that any risk is in the court of the person who buys the equipment. I went to Goodwill and bought a front-mount snorkel from China, for not too much. My wife said I should make sure to wash it thoroughly before using it, which I did. That's in my court. John
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Post by scubalawyer on Jan 19, 2020 10:13:13 GMT -8
The first thing you learn in law school (aside from not fettering your ass by the side of the road - which is a whole different case) is that anyone can sue anyone for anything. Any person can file and serve a lawsuit against another person or business accusing them of unlawfully raising Martian Turtles on the back side of the moon which is throwing off the moon's mass and that interfered with your circadian rhythm through your foil hat causing you emotional distress damages. The court clerk is not the gatekeeper. They have to file whatever lawsuit is put in front of them. Now, the odds of a judge throwing that lawsuit out of court are pretty high. Regardless, you as the defendant being sued have to incur the time and expense of responding to the lawsuit, no matter how frivolous. Welcome to our legal system.
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Post by cnotthoff on Jan 19, 2020 11:19:31 GMT -8
Since this seems to have inspired some lively debate, I'll throw in a few more of my two cents. Some of our lawyer friends might be able to convert this into legalize.
There is a difference in expectations between someone fiddling with old regulators in their garage, and a dive shop providing service at a fee. In other words, Phil is unlikely to find himself in court defending himself against someone who has problem with a Mistral he bought on Ebay. I have only been involved in one suit regarding the failure of a CO2 detonator to inflate a diver's BC. Yea, that tells you how long ago that was. That customer had a reasonable expectation to be provided with equipment that would function properly. If you guessed that everyone from the scuba equipment manufacturer to the guy who cleans the floor in the rental department were named in that suit, you guessed right.
To be clear, that difference has nothing to do with the competence or experience of the person doing the work. I've met many people on this forum and IRL, who know more about scuba equipment than many dive shop employees.
Good Dives, Charlie
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Post by nikeajax on Jan 19, 2020 12:19:22 GMT -8
Since this seems to have inspired some lively debate, I'll throw in a few more of my two cents. Some of our lawyer friends might be able to convert this into legalize.
There is a difference in expectations between someone fiddling with old regulators in their garage, and a dive shop providing service at a fee. In other words, Phil is unlikely to find himself in court defending himself against someone who has problem with a Mistral he bought on Ebay. I have only been involved in one suit regarding the failure of a CO2 detonator to inflate a diver's BC. Yea, that tells you how long ago that was. That customer had a reasonable expectation to be provided with equipment that would function properly. If you guessed that everyone from the scuba equipment manufacturer to the guy who cleans the floor in the rental department were named in that suit, you guessed right.
To be clear, that difference has nothing to do with the competence or experience of the person doing the work. I've met many people on this forum and IRL, who know more about scuba equipment than many dive shop employees.
Good Dives, Charlie Wait, Phil is involved in a law suit, OMG, how awful, did someone die? Sorry, I just couldn't resist JB
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Post by crabbyjim on Jan 19, 2020 12:27:08 GMT -8
I think you’re right on the money, Charlie, although Mark’s point is well taken. Perhaps we can talk about something else now. I am going to start a new thread on a different topic now.
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Post by SeaRat on Jan 19, 2020 13:08:49 GMT -8
Charlie, is that why I cannot find a snorkeling vest with a CO2 inflater?
John
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