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Post by vance on Aug 17, 2020 18:29:46 GMT -8
I thought I'd start a new thread, specific to 3d parts Healthways replacement and mod parts being designed and made printable. James and I have been thinking about parts to improve performance and to replace heretofore irreplaceable bits that one may need to fix one of the Scuba DH series. I've been thinking, and James has been making. I suppose you understand the imbalance of this arrangement? Hint: James has been doing a lot of thinking, too.
Regardless, dive-able progress toward a Super Scuba and a Super Deluxe has been made with the 3D Snorkel-Jet v0.6, an air director that doesn't require any modification to the reg, a replacement exhaust diaphragm system for the Scuba, and replacement box clamps for all 3. In addition, the HW exhaust non-return wws are now printable for the Scuba and Deluxe, as well as a GL specific set (although the GL set can be used in all 3), and a replacement HP valve bell for both long and short valves!
I have pool tested the exhaust diaphragm and the SJ, which I believe breathes much better than a stock Scuba. We hope to hear, on this thread, from those who have received beta test parts and have dived regs equipped with these parts!
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Post by tomcatpc on Aug 17, 2020 18:40:49 GMT -8
Really looking forward to seeing a useable reproduction exhaust diaphragm for the SCUBA! I think that would potentially put a lot of otherwise un-divable double hose regulators back in the water!
Mark
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Post by vance on Aug 18, 2020 8:55:25 GMT -8
Really looking forward to seeing a useable reproduction exhaust diaphragm for the SCUBA! I think that would potentially put a lot of otherwise un-divable double hose regulators back in the water! Mark As far as "reproduction" on the exhaust diaphragm, we aren't even attempting to make an OEM style part. I've tried and several others have attempted them with no real success. Cast silicone is not robust enough to stand up under clamping with the OEM wire clamp. Not much is in my experience, hence replacing the wire clamp with a flat stainless clamp is necessary. Last time I heard, Jeff H was making a new mold but no progress has been reported that I know of. The replacement system is not reproduction, but a slightly different approach which leaves the type of sheet material up to the user, as long as it is the correct thickness. As mentioned elsewhere, the material I have tested is green theraband sheet. I don't know what its composition is, but it's tough and thick enough to hold up under use. How long it will last is in question, but proper inspection and maintenance procedures should prevent any problems due to the sheet deteriorating. It passed the leak test (w/o any kind of sealant) and the pool test, so I'm confident it is good to go for casual diving. This diaphragm is critical to keeping water out of the air side of the boxes. A catastrophic failure of the diaphragm would indeed be catastrophic! There is plenty of discussion, diagrams, and pictures in the thread dedicated to the Scuba exhaust diaphragm and duckbill, so head over there if you haven't been thoroughly deluged with the subject already. |
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Post by tomcatpc on Aug 18, 2020 8:59:13 GMT -8
I was just commenting...
Mark
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Post by vance on Aug 18, 2020 14:08:16 GMT -8
I was just commenting... Mark Sorry, Mark, I understand what you are saying! I'd like to see a good reproduction diaphragm as well. I'm hoping Jeff's is working out. I really don't like that wire clamp, though. |
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Post by Terry on Aug 18, 2020 15:34:03 GMT -8
Well here's a bit of info in regards to where I'm currently at with my Healthways Scuba. Up until a couple of days ago the configuration I had was using the original exhaust diaphragm, Phils' stainless band clamp installed with some RTV silicone, and also the use of a modified cutdown duckbill. The reg breathed great when pool tested at 4-1/2' and when I opened up the can after testing it was bone dry inside. A+ on that  As for the exhaust with the duckbill; not satisfied. All seemed to be well with it when I was in the pool and I never had any wet breathing experience; however when I got out of the pool and was shutting the system down I had a very considerable amount of water exit the exhaust when blowing into the mouthpiece and flexing the hoses. So it seemed obvious to me that the duckbill was not doing it's job and that the exhaust diaphragm also was not properly sealing against the inner exhaust horn as it should. F- on that  As I mentioned in the other thread I just recently bought a couple of the diaphragm retainers that James now has available and I've been eager to give them a try. The other day I disassembled this reg again and am getting ready to try some other configurations to see what I come up with. After I disassembled this reg I held different materials over the exhaust tube inside to see which ones could be held in place with the new exhaust retainers I now had from James. I tried that inner tube material I had but it seems to be too thick to install and I wasn't able to slip on the retainer. I also had a piece of some swimming pool backwash hose material that I thought might work as a diaphragm; but it was too rigid and didn't form well to the exhaust tube when trying to install it and didn't allow installation of the retainer. I also had a piece of some silicone from one of my VDH silicone duckbills and that seems promising. I had no problem holding it in place on the exhaust tube and was easily able to slide on the retainer; so that might work. I am concerned however from a safety standpoint as to whether this material is thick enough and not fail during an actual dive. I also tried the double layer of nitrile which is laminated together with a thin layer of RTV silicone in between and that seems to work well. This is easily fitted over the exhaust tube and also allows an easy installation of the retainer. NOTE: The retainer that James has available is 2 different designs: the standard retainer that holds the diaphragm material in place, and the retainer that has the inner lip that not only holds the diaphragm material in place but also recesses the material so it seals against the inner exhaust tube similar to the way the original diaphragm does. When I was in the process of testing these different materials for fit I tried them with both retainers and the retainer with the inner lip without any doubt definitely gave a much better results with sealing against the inner exhaust tube. When trying both of these I would try to inhale from the exhaust horn and the one with the inner lip would lock up immediately and I never got any air. When doing the same with the standard retainer; it would seal also but it allowed the diaphragm material to momentarily flutter allowing a trace of air and then lock up. My opinion for what it's worth; I think the retainer with the inner lip is definitely the way to go. The next configuration I want to try will be: double layer nitrile material for diaphragm, James' retainer with the inner lip, Phils' stainless band clamp installed WITHOUT any RTV silicone for sealant, and NO duckbill. I want to see how well this works in regards to keeping the inside of the reg dry, and how well the diaphragm seals the exhaust tube and hose with use of the retainer with the inner lip without use of any duckbill. (That duckbill is another issue in regards to this matter that needs to be addressed). So hopefully I'll get to try this configuration in the next few days and we'll all see what happens.   |
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Post by james1979 on Aug 19, 2020 4:26:55 GMT -8
The next configuration I want to try will be: double layer nitrile material for diaphragm, James' retainer with the inner lip, Phils' stainless band clamp installed WITHOUT any RTV silicone for sealant, and NO duckbill. I want to see how well this works in regards to keeping the inside of the reg dry, and how well the diaphragm seals the exhaust tube and hose with use of the retainer with the inner lip without use of any duckbill. (That duckbill is another issue in regards to this matter that needs to be addressed). So hopefully I'll get to try this configuration in the next few days and we'll all see what happens. Hopefully today or tomorrow I will be trying the same configuration, but with Green Theraband instead of nitrile, with and without SnorkleJet ABS 0.6 in the pool. I'll report back on what I find. Respectfully, James
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Post by james1979 on Aug 23, 2020 12:51:19 GMT -8
Well, took a few days to get to it, but I finally plumbed the depths of our pool with "Most of A Scuba." I achieved a depth of 8 FSW (salt system pool, lol). Bear in mind, this is my first single stage reg, and it's on a full tank (2300 psi). I also have no experience tuning single stage regs, so just went with lever low enough not to free flow, and high enough not to rattle... So, here goes:
Configuration: Printed box clamp, printed Exhaust Retainer with green Theraband for the exhaust diaphram, silicone band covering inner exhaust horn holes, USD hose loop with plastic squeeze clamps on the Horn end, tested with and without SnorkleJet ABS 0.6. Mounted on Steel 72 at 2300 psi, VDH plate, and scratch built wing.
Theraband with Exhaust Retainer;
Good news - No water in the exhaust hose, despite not using a duckbill at all.... granted it was a very short duration test (about 5 minutes), but I'm pretty pleased with how it worked as an exhaust valve.
Bad news - About a tablespoon of water in the can. However, I suspect that entered via the intake hose due to trying a different type of clamp (on video I can see bubbles from the hose to horn joint on the inhalation horn). SnorkleJet ABS 0.6;
With installed - First impression was "this is a bit of a dog, but not too bad... doesn't breath as easy as my RAM but I could do this all day." Not too bad, but nothing to compare to, really.
With it removed - Holy poo! this is what no venturi feels like? I have to suck on the damn thing continuously!
On reflection - Venturi is your friend. I am accustomed to feeling cracking effort followed by a drop in effort that makes it feel relatively natural (RAM, Conshelf, SP 109). The SnorkleJet left me feeling like the cracking effort was a bit high, but still had the familiar "once it cracks, I'm just breathing" feel. Without the SnorkleJet, I felt the continuous effort on inhale substantially, and resolved to never dive this thing without SnorkleJet or something like it installed.... ever.... again! I have not tried JB's original design, but I agree with Phil's assessment that this is a definite improvement over stock, and will try at least one more iteration before I call it a 1.0 design.
Respectfully,
James
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Post by nikeajax on Aug 23, 2020 14:02:10 GMT -8
James, very nice, thanks for Sharon, er-ah, sharing! I'm wondering if you could use some more height on your levers?
JB
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Post by james1979 on Aug 23, 2020 14:05:40 GMT -8
James, very nice, thanks for Sharon, er-ah, sharing! I'm wondering if you could use some more height on your levers? JB JB, Very likely you are right... I'm new to this single stage tuning thing, so definitely open to advice! My main goal, however, was to test the effect of the SnorkleJet, which seemed effective to me. The future absolutely includes tuning it better.
Now send Sharon back.....
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Post by nikeajax on Aug 23, 2020 14:50:16 GMT -8
I'm new to this single stage tuning thing, so definitely open to advice! And that is why I am here my friend!  As for my sending Sharon back, I only had her on loan: Ozzy might get PO'ed if you keep her too long...   JB |
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Post by Terry on Aug 23, 2020 17:55:29 GMT -8
Thanks for the report James; I found it informative and as I was reading it I began to get some possible answers to questions I had in regards to the test I did a couple days ago. As I stated in a recent post I wanted to wet test this reg in the pool again with the following configuration: double layer nitrile for diaphragm, diaphragm retainer with inner lip and stainless band clamp; installed without any adhesive and no duckbill. Our pool is only 4-1/2' deep but it serves the purpose and I spent about 15 minutes trying this reg out. During the testing it performed great; no wet breathing and the reg provided very easy breathing; both inhale and exhale. Following the test when I opened the reg up it was perfectly dry; so the band clamp, diaphragm retainer and nitrile performed great and did not leak with the absence of using any sealant. During the testing I also felt certain that I was not getting any water in the exhaust hose and that the retainer with the inner lip was doing it's job holding the nitrile against the inner exhaust tube; but unfortunately that thought changed after I got out of the pool. Now this is where the info in the report James stated comes into play. James stated that he did not get any water in his exhaust hose and the he also did not install a duckbill. When I got out of the pool as I blew into the mouthpiece to clear the system I had a considerable amount of water blow out of the exhaust hose several times. During the testing I felt certain with the way my reg was performing that I was not getting any water in the exhaust hose and after discovering that I did I kept wondering why. My first thought was that following the testing while standing up in the pool water was then able to seep in past the diaphragm and into the inner horn. Since the reg was not underwater at this time and there wasn't any water pressure causing the reg to adjust itself to ambient pressure I don't think this allowed the diaphragm to seal against the inner exhaust horn. Then after reading the report James just posted I had another thought in regards to this problem, the material used for the diaphragm. I used a double layer of nitrile, and James used Theraband; could that be the difference? I'm wondering if the Theraband is a thicker material than the nitrile is, and if so could that make the difference ? I'm thinking that if the Theraband is thicker that when using it with the retainer that has the inner lip this would make for a better sealing contact against the inner exhaust horn. So; give me your thoughts guys.
Overall I was very satisfied with the performance; I just need to eliminate the water in the exhaust hose problem. I'm sure a good duckbill will resolve this problem when I come up with one. So far I haven't been a big fan of the cut down duckbill; I've cut down several and I still get some water in the exhaust hose; not a lot but enough to "set me off" where I want a better resolution to the problem.
James; find that "Sweet Spot" on your reg and she'll breathe just fine. It takes some looking but it's there. It just takes some very minute adjusting of the set screw on the lever assembly.
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Post by nikeajax on Aug 24, 2020 9:56:42 GMT -8
To get that very fine adjustment, slip a very rigid tube of some sort over the handle of the Allen-wrench: the idea is that you are lengthening the handle, thus giving you more throw allowing for micro-fine adjustments. I'd do seven or eight-inches  JB |
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Post by snark3 on Aug 24, 2020 11:14:14 GMT -8
JB- The easiest way I've found to extend an Allen-wrench is to put a socket of the proper size with an extension. You're also less likely to damage the Allen-wrench.
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Post by vance on Aug 25, 2020 13:38:00 GMT -8
The way I adjust Scubas seems to work pretty well. I'm sure others have their ways, but here's how I do it:
Before you start with the adjustment, put the reg on a tank w/o the diaphragm and cover to be sure you have a good HP seat seal!
Replace the setscrew with one that has an allen head if it's slotted. This way, the allen key works like a clock hand to give you good control over the adjustment.
Use the key and a box wrench for the nut. You can see where the key is and you can see how much you're turning the adjuster in and out. It also lets you hold the adjuster in position while tightening the nut so it doesn't move with the nut.
I sight over the rim of the box, holding it level and note where the lever ends are. They usually should be above the level of the box rim, between 1/16"- 3/16". When it seems to be right, I lay the diaphragm over the rim and check to be sure the diaphragm is sitting on the rim all the way around and is not being lifted off the rim by the lever.
If it's not, lower the lever a bit and try it again. When it's sitting right, lightly tap the diaphragm disk to feel for a gap between the disk and the lever. What I am looking for is a miniscule gap between the disk and the lever. You can feel it. A small change can make a big difference!
You can experiment with leaving the nut slightly loose and then tightening it when you're satisfied with the adjustment, but it will change a hair when the nut is tightened. Another method is eyeball, tighten, tap, readjust, tighten, tap, etc., until you get it right.
Put it together and hope it doesn't flow when it's attached to a tank!
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As for the exhaust with the duckbill; not satisfied. All seemed to be well with it when I was in the pool and I never had any wet breathing experience; however when I got out of the pool and was shutting the system down I had a very considerable amount of water exit the exhaust when blowing into the mouthpiece and flexing the hoses. So it seemed obvious to me that the duckbill was not doing it's job and that the exhaust diaphragm also was not properly sealing against the inner exhaust horn as it should. F- on that 
