|
Post by vance on Oct 10, 2020 10:03:31 GMT -8
James has been busy. He has drawn up and printed a set of boxes, based on the USD DAAM/Mistral design, for the Titan II. The beauty of this is, any hole can be drawn into the print instructions! You can make a 3D DAAM/RAM, a 3D Mistral, a 3D Healthways Misuba, or whatever. AND it has an integrated DBE. Here's the first regulator made from his box set: The 3D Titan III! It works! I hooked it up and took some breaths off of it, and it works great!
|
|
|
Post by scubalawyer on Oct 10, 2020 10:14:25 GMT -8
That is really cool! Now if I can just get a 3D compressor printed up, my dive locker would be complete.
|
|
|
Post by Terry on Oct 10, 2020 13:21:09 GMT -8
|
|
|
Post by vance on Oct 10, 2020 14:42:24 GMT -8
I've tried to get my metalhead head around 3D printing.
Now, I'm not a complete idiot around computers, and I've built many a box over the years. I've even done some OS hacking, like making Mac OS run on PC, etc. But I can't seem to figure out CAD.
I don't know why it is so hard for me. I've watched many a tutorial on many things over the years and was always able to apply what I saw to my projects, but I get lost in the first minute of a basic CAD tutorial. Even my math disabled brother works marvels in Sketchup.
Maybe, I'm too impatient and my personality requires quick understanding or my brain shuts down?
|
|
|
Post by vance on Oct 10, 2020 14:48:13 GMT -8
So, maybe no one has considered this yet, but James' boxes will allow mods to build crazy- a** DH regs w/o sacrificing any vintage boxes! Ooooh, baby! Vance is unleashed!
|
|
|
Post by SeaRat on Oct 10, 2020 15:29:49 GMT -8
Wow, this is amazing technology. Take a look at the following two photos: IMG_0589 by John Ratliff, on Flickr Note that the duckbill is attached to the outside of the removable exhaust horn. This allowed the exhaust duckbill to be easily replaced and washed after a dive. The exhaust duckbill attached in this manner lasts a very long time. Aqualung Regulator-2 by John Ratliff, on Flickr This is the DA Aqualung (Broxton Green Lable). Note the removable exhaust horn. On the above 3D Printer, I note that you have included a duckbill eliminator. For those of you who don't know, I favor a duckbill over a mushroom exhaust, but know that the duckbill has problems with wear over the years. But, they are easier breathing than a mushroom valve. I noted that the DA Aqualung had a better exhaust system than the Aquamaster systems and the Mistral. U.S. Divers Company designed out the removable duckbill as a cost-saving measure, and probably later realized that it resulted in more sales of duckbills due to the problems of maintenance of this valve. This was because, with the duckbill inside the horn, it was virtually impassible to wash it correctly. So what I did was to take the bottom box off my DA Aqualung, and for years I dove my Mistral with the DA bottom box on it instead of the original bottom box for the Mistral. It breathed great that way! What I'm wondering is, with the advent of the 3D printer, could you guys design a bottom box with a removable exhaust horn designed for a duckbill on the outside of the interior tube, much like the photos above? John
|
|
|
Post by james1979 on Oct 10, 2020 15:39:52 GMT -8
What I'm wondering is, with the advent of the 3D printer, could you guys design a bottom box with a removable exhaust horn designed for a duckbill on the outside of the interior tube, much like the photos above? John,
I'm pretty sure I could... would you want it parts interchangeable with the existing removable horn can, or it's own thing done in that style? Both should be do-able, but I would need to borrow an existing can to nail down fitment for parts interchangeable pieces.
Respectfully,
James
|
|
|
Post by Terry on Oct 10, 2020 15:55:31 GMT -8
And the hits just keep on comin'!
|
|
|
Post by SeaRat on Oct 10, 2020 15:59:43 GMT -8
James,
It doesn't need to be interchangable with the 1950's can. It can be its own design, but the idea is to be able to remove the exhaust horn for easy washing and/or replacement of the duckbill, and have the duckbill attached to the outside of an interior tube.
The reason I like the duckbill is that it, according to the U.S. Navy Experimental Diving Unit, as well as my own experience, leads to easier exhalations than any of the various mushroom valve combinations. It is interesting to me that Dacor, with the R-4 regulator, failed the EDU's evaluation based upon its exhalation properties. Also, Dacor, with its final double hose regulator, the C3N, did away with the second exhaust diaphragm and went to a duckbill within that space. They had the exhaust diaphragm initially in the 1950s through most of the 1970s because of the U.S. Divers Company patent on the duckbill. When that patent finally expired, Dacor in 1977 went to a duckbill design.
John
|
|
|
Post by vance on Oct 10, 2020 16:00:39 GMT -8
The thing is, is.... The mushroom valve can be increased in size to equal the duckbill. With the printed box set, you can adjust everything to whatever you want. A bigger exhaust box with a bigger mushroom valve can be accomplished fairly easily. Duckbills are expensive, and don't work as well as a good mushroom setup.The Healthways style mushroom valve is pretty sweet. VDH went to the mushroom with their DBE, which, IMO and theirs, is a better way to go. The Snark DHers had a huge mushroom exhaust valve which worked well. You don't need to go that big.
|
|
|
Post by vance on Oct 10, 2020 16:06:33 GMT -8
What I'm wondering is, with the advent of the 3D printer, could you guys design a bottom box with a removable exhaust horn designed for a duckbill on the outside of the interior tube, much like the photos above? John, I'm pretty sure I could... would you want it parts interchangeable with the existing removable horn can, or it's own thing done in that style? Both should be do-able, but I would need to borrow an existing can to nail down fitment for parts interchangeable pieces. Respectfully, James
Vintagescubasupply.com sells a reproduction duckbill in neoprene that can be cut to fit these removeable exhaust horns. You'll need to clamp it by wrapping fishing line or making a stainless clamp for it.
|
|
|
Post by SeaRat on Oct 10, 2020 16:23:56 GMT -8
The thing is, is.... The mushroom valve can be increased in size to equal the duckbill. With the printed box set, you can adjust everything to whatever you want. A bigger exhaust box with a bigger mushroom valve can be accomplished fairly easily. Duckbills are expensive, and don't work as well as a good mushroom setup.The Healthways style mushroom valve is pretty sweet. VDH went to the mushroom with their DBE, which, IMO and theirs, is a better way to go. The Snark DHers had a huge mushroom exhaust valve which worked well. You don't need to go that big. I'll add more later, but let me reinterate that only two of the double hose regulators with mushroom exhausts passed the U.S. Naval Experimental Diving Unit's tests for receiving Navy approval.* The problem with the mushroom valve is that they require a 90 degree turn of the air to exit, and only a portion of the opening is actually used by the air to exhaust. This creates a backup in the exhaust line, which results in harder breathing. I modified one of my Healthways Gold Label cans to incorporate a duel mushroom exhaust to get around this in the 1980s. That seemed to help, but I don't think it come up to the duckbill standards. We've got to remember that in the 1960s through the 1970s, until U.S. Divers Company not only enlarged the mushroom exhaust on their Conshelf/Calypso regulators, AND incorporated an exhaust design to allow the mushroom to open in air (a pocked below the mushroom valve), that the U.S. Navy did not approve any single hose regulator based upon exhalation resistance. I have done a lot of both measurements and experiments to show this, but that will have to wait until later to show you. John *The Snark III was used when the Royal Aquamaster was discontinued by U.S. Divers Company in their training. Also, the Navy requested that U.S. Divers Company build a new regulator, the ___________, which incorporated a mushroom design. (Senior moment, I'll think of that regulator soon; I don't think either of these were released for field use.)
|
|
|
Post by technidiver on Oct 10, 2020 17:44:18 GMT -8
Ok, I have to say that is f’ing awesome. I would definitely be down to try out a pair here up North in Canada. I’m guessing since they can work on a Titan, a DAAM is no problem like you mentioned Phil.
Excellent Work James and Phil!
TD
|
|
|
Post by luis on Oct 10, 2020 19:10:50 GMT -8
The thing is, is.... The mushroom valve can be increased in size to equal the duckbill. With the printed box set, you can adjust everything to whatever you want. A bigger exhaust box with a bigger mushroom valve can be accomplished fairly easily. Duckbills are expensive, and don't work as well as a good mushroom setup.The Healthways style mushroom valve is pretty sweet. VDH went to the mushroom with their DBE, which, IMO and theirs, is a better way to go. The Snark DHers had a huge mushroom exhaust valve which worked well. You don't need to go that big. I'll add more later, but let me reinterate that only two of the double hose regulators with mushroom exhausts passed the U.S. Naval Experimental Diving Unit's tests for receiving Navy approval.* The problem with the mushroom valve is that they require a 90 degree turn of the air to exit, and only a portion of the opening is actually used by the air to exhaust. This creates a backup in the exhaust line, which results in harder breathing. I modified one of my Healthways Gold Label cans to incorporate a duel mushroom exhaust to get around this in the 1980s. That seemed to help, but I don't think it come up to the duckbill standards. We've got to remember that in the 1960s through the 1970s, until U.S. Divers Company not only enlarged the mushroom exhaust on their Conshelf/Calypso regulators, AND incorporated an exhaust design to allow the mushroom to open in air (a pocked below the mushroom valve), that the U.S. Navy did not approve any single hose regulator based upon exhalation resistance. I have done a lot of both measurements and experiments to show this, but that will have to wait until later to show you. John *The Snark III was used when the Royal Aquamaster was discontinued by U.S. Divers Company in their training. Also, the Navy requested that U.S. Divers Company build a new regulator, the ___________, which incorporated a mushroom design. (Senior moment, I'll think of that regulator soon; I don't think either of these were released for field use.) The Mentor is the name you are looking for.
It is amazing that you are still arguing about the old duckbills. There are several reasons why you will never see a duckbill in a re-breather. Keeping the breathing resistance in a rebreather down is so imperative that they had to go to slightly larger hoses than what we use on a double hose regulator. Rebreather do not have any pneumatic assistance (in the form of venturi assistance etc.). The diver pushes and pulls in and out of the counter-lungs. The Navy does a tremendous amount of testing on their rebreathers. I have been to the experimental diving unit in Panama City Florida. And I have had discussions with the Navy engineers at NEDU and the Dive Depot in Panama City. I have actually seen detail drawings of the mushroom valves on one of the newer rebreathers under testing. What I am sharing is just public knowledge. There are a number of reasons why all Navy and commercial rebreathers also use mushroom valves, but at the top of the list or very close is their low flow resistance and their reliability. I am just going to leave it at that.
|
|
|
Post by luis on Oct 10, 2020 19:19:17 GMT -8
I was talking to James about the material he used in this 3D printing. It sounds very impressive.
And he has done a very nice job with his modeling. I like the horn to can transition. That was something that could not be done in metal.
|
|