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Post by vance on Sept 6, 2021 14:50:41 GMT -8
Dear JB, What?? I resemble that remark! It ain't THAT easy! Anyone can do it?? Yours, Dr. Frankenreg I believe Luis and Herman are pretty much responsible for the parts that I'm talking about: which I almost made a joke to bill about, but didn't. OK, so maybe my cats can't do it, their paws aren't big enough, and they don't have opposable thumbs, but those parts make it dead simple Jus' sayin'... JB Do you mean adding improved, new parts that you can buy from the designers/makers is easy? I would agree it's easy for a person with some mechanical ability, but a lot of people aren't capable of doing that. However, envisioning, designing, testing, and making these parts is well beyond the capabilities of the average Joe. You have come up with some very cool innovations that improve the performance of very mediocre performers, yourself. I wouldn't characterize those ideas/implementations as 'dead easy'. Dang! Off topic again!
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Post by vance on Sept 6, 2021 14:59:07 GMT -8
Yep, I could install the two piece retainer and solve that issue... but then it wouldn't really be a true Spaco. I prefer to use it in as close to original configuration as possible, and live with the limitations.
Is the Spaco spring retainer the same size/thread as the Aqualung?
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Post by SeaRat on Sept 6, 2021 17:08:44 GMT -8
It has come to my attention that not everyone is familiar with the SPACO AquaLung, so a few quick words... The Spaco was made in Canada by Aqualung in 1948 or 49, and I think Emile Gagnan had moved to Canada by that time with parent company Air Liquide. I suspect he was key to the Canadian production of Aqualungs. It was distributed in small numbers by Spaco Inc. in Vermont. This reg predates the Aqualungs sold by Rene's Sports (soon to be called US DIVERS) in California, which are now commonly called Broxtons, due to address. So Rene was not the first seller of Aqualung devices in this country. Spaco is considered a pretty rare item. The photo shows the insides of a Broxton on the left, and Spaco on the right. The lack of a spring tension adjustment makes it a little tricky to tweak the Spaco, as the only way to adjust the IP (as far as I can tell) is to remove the retainer, add shim(s) to the spring, and reinstall the retainer. It's a bit difficult to get started into the threads due to spring tension. Yep, I could install the two piece retainer and solve that issue... but then it wouldn't really be a true Spaco. I prefer to use it in as close to original configuration as possible, and live with the limitations.
One thing you could do is to make a jig to ensure that the part over the HP sping is tightened as tight as possible. This was shown in the U.S. Navy Dive Manual, 1970, and is shown in the diagram below. Aquamaster & tools001 by John Ratliff, on Flickr By tightening it as far is possible, you would increase the interstage pressure. The jig (#5 below) is meant to be placed into a vice, and the regulator placed into the slot so that the retaining nut can easily be tightened. This diagram is for the DA Aquamaster, but can be used for the Spatco and the DA Aqualung too, except that the interstage pressure cannot be measured on these early regulators. John
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Post by scubalawyer on Sept 6, 2021 17:51:34 GMT -8
This diagram is for the DA Aquamaster, but can be used for the Spatco and the DA Aqualung too, except that the interstage pressure cannot be measured on these early regulators. My Voit Marriner has the same internals as the USD Broxton regs. I just screw a guage into the 2nd stage orifice and can measure and set IP easily.
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Post by vance on Sept 6, 2021 19:27:07 GMT -8
Yup, but the Spaco doesn't have the adjuster. You'd need shims over the diaphragm to lower the IP, and under it to raise it.
Edit: Or you could just use common sense like Bill did and shim between the spring retainer and the top of the spring.....
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Post by SeaRat on Sept 6, 2021 20:30:23 GMT -8
Yup, but the Spaco doesn't have the adjuster. You'd need shims over the diaphragm to lower the IP, and under it to raise it. The shims cannot go on the diaphragm side; they must go on the other side if you want to use shims. That is to say that the diaphragm needs to be flexible. It is best to put the shims up into the nut than on the diaphragm side. But cranking down on the nut can act like a shim, which is what I was trying to say. The interstate pressure can be read with the correct adapter for the pressure gauge (or if the threads are the same size as the opening). John
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Post by antique diver on Sept 7, 2021 5:02:55 GMT -8
I shimmed the spring years ago, but don't remember the IP setting I reached. Now I can't find the adapter I made to test the pressure on the Spaco/Broxton, so I just added 2 more thin shims on the top of the spring... then found a seep at the 2nd stage seat, so took one out. Not as scientific as using a gauge, but I got the pressure up enough to be a bit noticeable on reducing breathing effort on the bench. Spent hours doing a bunch more tinkering and had some unexpected results. I'm determined to keep this reg just as close to stock as possible, and still be be a little more pleasant to dive with. I'll go into details of that and try to post some photos later today or tomorrow. Also will show an easy-to-make substitute for tool #5 from a piece of 2x4.
Thanks to all of you for your interest and recommendations.
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Post by vance on Sept 7, 2021 8:07:41 GMT -8
Also will show an easy-to-make substitute for tool #5 from a piece of 2x4. That would be of great interest to me!
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Post by nikeajax on Sept 7, 2021 10:40:59 GMT -8
However, envisioning, designing, testing, and making these parts is well beyond the capabilities of the average Joe. PY, I wouldn't say what you do is hotrodding: yes, you have hotrodded regs, but a lot of the work you've done goes far and above the scope of that. Yes, we could argue the semantics of my verbiage, but, the point I was trying to make, was that all too often I see people get these great old historic regulators and decide that because they don't breathe as good as a modern regulator, they have to augment them with new high performance parts and never enjoy them for what they were! Jus' sayin'... JB
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Post by vance on Sept 7, 2021 11:41:09 GMT -8
Gotcha.
Everyone should experience an early Dacor, Scuba, or other early regulator. Diving them is fun to do, and not that bad, but they can use a bit of tweaking. The experience of diving with a less than stellar performer usually sends me scurrying to make mods to it!
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Post by SeaRat on Sept 7, 2021 13:04:18 GMT -8
Gotcha. Everyone should experience an early Dacor, Scuba, or other early regulator. Diving them is fun to do, and not that bad, but they can use a bit of tweaking. The experience of diving with a less than stellar performer usually sends me scurrying to make mods to it! A perfect example of this modification is my hybrid Healthways Scuba regulator (original Healthways Scuba box and exhaust with the Gold Label innards). That is one great-breathing regulator. John
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Post by antique diver on Sept 7, 2021 14:07:50 GMT -8
Also will show an easy-to-make substitute for tool #5 from a piece of 2x4. That would be of great interest to me! Here's a quick, easy and almost cost-free (unless you have to buy the tools) holder for the Spaco, Broxton, Aquamaster, and Royal Aquamaster. This particular block of wood shows a small cutout for the early regs without the complete LP hookah port, but it is easily cut & chiseled out a bit larger and deeper for that in the other direction. This "tool" accommodates the body with the yoke still in place for added convenience. Simple tools required include a 1-3/8" holesaw, a 5/8" flat wood bit, and a 1/2" wide chisel. Of course a hammer and drill motor are needed too. You can start with making the large hole completely through the board, then use the 5/8 bit to start the thru-cuts for yoke, and a trough deep enough for the Hookah port. Use the chisel to enlarge slots and holes as just enough for the regulator to fit just right into the new tool. You can clamp the 2x4 in vise to give a solid work place. If you have no vise just start with a longer board for leverage. This whole job was done in 20 minutes, and is a little rough looking, but it does the job. The quality could easily be improved to be better looking. Here's the same block after cutting out a larger slot to accept the Hookah Port. I left the smaller slot intact to keep the older regs held snugly in place.
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Post by vance on Sept 7, 2021 15:58:24 GMT -8
Excellent. I'm going to make one ASAP!
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Post by antique diver on Sept 10, 2021 20:15:52 GMT -8
Spent several hours this week experimenting with the Spaco in hopes of a little improvement in performance. Shimming the main spring gave a boost in IP, and that was trial and error trying to get the right shim thickness. A little harder now to compress the spring while trying to get the retainer to thread in. The lever activation tabs on the modern diaphragms we are all familiar with are too short for these regs, causing too much free play between tabs and horseshoe levers. That results in some increase in breathing effort, and may also limit the total total travel of horseshoe, which would decrease the opening of the second stage seat and decrease air flow. Maybe. So I bent a stainless steel strip into a longer set of tabs to alleviate the above issue. It rests between the original tabs that I bent a bit out of the way. Also the new tabs are offset from center of diaphragm to center better on the lever tips. Performance was enhanced significantly. A reproduction Silicone diaphragm was too soft, and the increased flow and turbulence caused it to chatter. It would likely be tamed by water when diving, but I didn't like it. I moved the new tab set to an original stock diaphragm (used but very good condition) and that was resolved. Breathing effort was still noticeably decreased, so I'll leave it alone until the next dives in a week or two. That's about as close to original configuration that I can get without having an actual original diaphragm to compare.
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Post by SeaRat on Sept 10, 2021 20:24:19 GMT -8
Be sure that, when you put the duckbill into the extension on the exhaust horn, that it’s end extends about 1/2 inch beyond the center of the diaphrogm. With a breaking resistance of 1/2 inch, if you don’t do that, the exhaust will leak a bit when in a vertical position.
By the way, that is an excellent result!
John
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