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Post by SeaRat on Oct 27, 2005 7:47:26 GMT -8
Well, with the non-returns in the mouthpiece, you only need to clear the mouthpiece, and it looks quite a bit smaller than the original Kleer-EZ mouthpieces by USD;)
John
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Post by Mike Nelson on Oct 27, 2005 8:13:52 GMT -8
Actually to purge water from the reg (new Mistral), just tilt your head to the right and blow.....Keith
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Post by JES on Oct 27, 2005 12:42:19 GMT -8
To answer your question regarding this regulator I think you need go no further the eBay.
The Mistral double hose regulators seem to be available on a regular basis and the original owners are taking a big loss on the auctions.
Although anecdotal, it doesn't appear that the original owners are very pleased with them.
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Post by luis on Oct 27, 2005 13:21:21 GMT -8
I wonder how many of the new Mistral owners are not truly conscious about the importance of a double hose regulator location.
I have only seen one person using a new Mistral at Wazee and he had it way to high.
I have heard conflicting stories on the new Mistral performance and I wonder how much is from operator error (again tank positioning) and unrealistic expectations.
I have lent one of my Royal Aqua Master to a couple of friends and explain about tank positioning. Half way though the dive I look at them and after using their BC, their regulator has climbed above their head. Even the best breathing Royal can’t make up for that pressure differential.
The people in this board know about regulator location, but I don’t think the general diving population does.
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Post by jamiep3 on Oct 27, 2005 14:21:53 GMT -8
I've been watching the new Mistrals on ebay and it seems that most are going for $400-$500. That's 80% of new retail. I've had my LDS tell me he could get me one for around $600 new.
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Post by JES on Oct 27, 2005 20:18:54 GMT -8
If it sells for $400 thats 67% of retail and a $200 loss (assuming retail of $600). I even saw one sell on eBay for $350 (58% of retail)
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Post by duckbill on Oct 27, 2005 21:54:58 GMT -8
Half way though the dive I look at them and after using their BC, their regulator has climbed above their head. Gee! I wonder if that was what was behind the wisdom of the ancient crotch strap cult.
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Post by duckbill on Oct 27, 2005 22:03:47 GMT -8
Actually to purge water from the reg (new Mistral), just tilt your head to the right and blow.....Keith I didn't mean the hoses. I meant the regulator. Regulator flooding is a worst case scenario which, though very rare with one-way valves, should always be anticipated. In the event of a inhale-hose failure, I believe the correct emergency procedure other than a emergency controlled ascent is to cut the hose back and drink the water out of the hose and regulator to establish an airflow. Now, while one may obviously be unwilling to drill for the occurence in this manner, it is a good idea to remove the one-ways and practice clearing the entire system.
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Post by nemrod on Oct 27, 2005 23:49:34 GMT -8
Chest mounting is not very practical to me, for years I have done everything possible to get stuff off my chest and out from in front of me. Don't wish to mount a regulator on my chest--nope.
Those hoses are so honking huge I am not sure I could ever learn to adjust to that. I think if I had one I would dump those hoeses and install a conventional hose set and mouthpiece if that is possible.
James
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Post by SeaRat on Oct 28, 2005 8:10:41 GMT -8
Actually to purge water from the reg (new Mistral), just tilt your head to the right and blow.....Keith I didn't mean the hoses. I meant the regulator. Regulator flooding is a worst case scenario which, though very rare with one-way valves, should always be anticipated. In the event of a inhale-hose failure, I believe the correct emergency procedure other than a emergency controlled ascent is to cut the hose back and drink the water out of the hose and regulator to establish an airflow. Now, while one may obviously be unwilling to drill for the occurence in this manner, it is a good idea to remove the one-ways and practice clearing the entire system. I have one regulator that I always dive without non-returns, as it never had an exhalation one, and the inhalation "died" before I got the regulator. That is the USD single stage "Overpressure Breathing" regulator. I have dove many other regulators without non-return valves. In all those cases, I have never had a complete flood of the regulator. In order to get a complete flood, one would have to shut off the air. If there is a leak in a hose, then there will be bubbling from that hose, and perhaps some dripping into the regulator's hose. I have seen a complete flood, but this was on purpose by Cousteau divers in the movie World Without Sun. Here, the deep divers were running out of air coming up to their deep cabin. Safety divers brought them fully-charged quad aqualung units using underwater scooters, minus the regulator. The Cousteau divers took their scuba off, shut off the air, removed their Mistral regulators, and put them onto the new tanks. They then purged these regulators by placing the mouthpiece above the regulator, clamping down on the intake hase with their fingers, and pumping the hose to create negative pressure and activate the diaphragm. Once free flow was established, they simply put the mouthpiece into their mouth, got a breath and exhaled to clear the exhalation hose. They then put their scuba back on, and continued their dive. You don't need to drink the water, or cut the hose, is what I'm saying here (although I think that was mentioned in jest anyway). The other ways would be to get a flood would be to have a diaphragm come loose, in which case all is lost, and the emergency swimming ascent would be needed; or to have Agent 007 cut the intake hose (Mike Nelson seemed to always cut the exhalation hose) ;D John
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Post by william bonney on Oct 28, 2005 8:25:13 GMT -8
Searat,,,,,,,your explainations are a good selling point for a Spare Air bottle ............been thinking about that, since My breath holding abilitys are waining as I get older......
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Post by duckbill on Oct 28, 2005 9:40:35 GMT -8
In order to get a complete flood, one would have to shut off the air. If there is a leak in a hose, then there will be bubbling from that hose, and perhaps some dripping into the regulator's hose. John Good Morning John. Are you certain that the only way to completely flood the reg would be to shut the air off? You mention a "leak" in the hose, but don't address catastrophic hose failure. I know it is a very unlikely occurence IF one inspects his hoses often, but on the other hand, I've never had ANY reg fail in any way. That does not mean that I don't prepare for the worst case scenario- not when my life may depend on it.
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Post by SeaRat on Oct 28, 2005 10:56:23 GMT -8
Duckbill,
Let me put it this way; we never trained for this kind of failure (completely flooded double hose regulator) in the US Navy School for Underwater Swimmers, where we used the DA Aquamaster without non-returns. (Actually, when we were working on these regulators, my partner and I put the non-returns back into the regulator before pool harrassment.) The harressment was designed to get us as a buddy team to the surface, and the only way a few teams were made to do this is when the instructors actually took off the regulators.
When you talk about a "catastrphic hose failure," remember you are talking about ambient pressure hoses. If there is a small leak, it will simply bubble a bit, and some drips of water will come into the hose. If you have a regulator hose that is "bad," put it onto the intake hose position and create a leak, then take it into the pool to see what happens. This exercise should be pretty instructive. The other way is for the hose clamp to fail, and the hose to come off the regulator, in which case you'll experience a total flood of the hose and, if the regulator is in a vertical position, free flow of the regulator, or a flood of the regulator if it is in a different position. But this would only happen if there was either no clamp, or no screw in the clamp, which is an exceedingly small chance for occurring.
Flooding the double hose regulator with the air pressure on is not easy to do. Try it in a pool sometime. If you do a doff and don exercise, and leave the air on, either you will drain the tank or, if you put the mouthpiece under the valve below the regulator, have an air pocket in the hose. It will not flood. If you take the mouthpiece out of your mouth with no non-returns, then you can flood the exhalation hose, but probably not the inhalation hose. Again, simply getting a breath, and clearing the exhalation hose, should clear the regulator. It probably will not flood completely. But if you do the doff and don, and turn off the air, the regulator will flood if there are no non-return valves in the mouthpiece's intake hose (they are irrelevant in the exhalation hose for this problem). Then, you will need to pump the hose to get the water out and the air flow to go. But you should never have to "drink the water" out of the hose. Not only is drinking the water an undesirable event for removing the water (it takes too long, and can initiate either a gag reflex or get into the lungs), there is the potential for a health hazard due to unclean water.
John
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Post by nemrod on Oct 28, 2005 11:07:12 GMT -8
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Searat,,,,,,,your explainations are a good selling point for a Spare Air bottle ............been thinking about that, since My breath holding abilitys are waining as I get older...... "
Me too, same thing, which is why I built my Double 50s with twin manifold. I feel confident to about 80 feet but beyond that I prefer twin regulators---AND-----that would be the case for me if I were diving vintage or diving the latest TUSA junk or ScubaPro or whatever. In fact, the more modern my gear the more I feel I need redundancy. Main diaphrams rarely slip out---I do not even know if it has happened more than a couple of times--ever--to anyone. The incorrect use of band clamps, new or old, sloppy or careless installation of the diaphram and clamp and over use of silicone could lead to a diaphram unseating. I got a couple of diaphrams, new, but they are not NOS so they maybe reproduction, I cannot use them because they do not have the correct ridge along the perimeter of the diaphram and these would surely unseat sooner or later. For the most part having a main diaphram unseat is in the realm of urban legend but occasionaly weird things can happen.
James
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Post by duckbill on Oct 28, 2005 12:24:25 GMT -8
Duckbill, But if you do the doff and don, and turn off the air, the regulator will flood if there are no non-return valves in the mouthpiece's intake hose (they are irrelevant in the exhalation hose for this problem). Then, you will need to pump the hose to get the water out and the air flow to go. But you should never have to "drink the water" out of the hose. Not only is drinking the water an undesirable event for removing the water (it takes too long, and can initiate either a gag reflex or get into the lungs), there is the potential for a health hazard due to unclean water. John I don't mean to take this thread on an aside, so I will make this my final post regarding the immediate subject. I have heard of both methods being suggested (pumping or drinking), but have never been able to create a vacuum in the hose to start an airflow without the one-ways installed while pumping. I guess I'll try that one again just for fun! As for the health hazard involved with drinking the water, I think I'd rather be sick than dead, usually. Thanks for the fun and interesting discussion.
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