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Post by james1979 on Sept 20, 2021 16:25:26 GMT -8
Yours is a RAM (judging by the label and the gap on the nozzle/yoke) so the balance chamber should use an O ring and a backup ring (teflon split washer) same as a Conshelf (it's the same assembly inside the nozzle). Your existing pin should be fine (unless it's bent).
best,
James
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Post by luis on Sept 20, 2021 17:08:22 GMT -8
I'm putting together my parts order for the project on VDH and have a couple questions. He recommends when replacing the hp seat to get a new teflon backup washer if the reg uses one. I wanted to see if mine likely uses one and if so, to clarify that the part I need is the "updated crown block backup washer" Also, it looks like I'll need to get a conshelf pin and trim it down to correct length. I worry about doing this accurately, so I'll cover postage and whatever additional labor cost if someone can trim it for me. Thanks
First, that is a very nice looking Royal Aqua Master. That label looks as good as any I have seen. About the back-up ring: Only the Royal Master and maybe a few very early Royal Aqua Master had the short balancing chamber (also known as crown or spring block) in the first stage. The short balancing chambers did not have the room for the back-up ring (back-up to the O-ring). In that situation it is recommended to replace the balancing chamber. I normally would actually replace the balancing chamber with a newer one anyways. The new ones are chromed as opposed to the earlier bare brass ones. They resist corrosion much better. Yes, this is always supposed to be a dry space that only very see very dry compressed air, but the key word is "supposed" to be. Moisture will always find its way. You do have an option for the back-up ring. The hard white plastic one or the hard Buna-N (rubber) with the concave face. Either one works, but the newer hard rubber ones are much easier to install and they seem to work better. The back-up ring has the specific purpose of keeping the O-ring from extruding under high pressure. It helps the O-ring to seal better without getting pinched or extruded. What you heard about the pin needing to be replaced is correct. The receiver cavity in early HP seats (with the hard rubber seat) were a different depth as the new replacement seats. The good news is that once you replace it, the new pin will work with all the new seats. Cutting the pin is not hard. The trick is that you do a rough cut with a heavy wire cutter and then file it down to fit. All it requires is a little bit of patience. If you over do it... just buy another pin. Just file a few thousands at a time and measure it again. The replacement pins are not expensive, but if you are careful... there is no reason to damage one. I start by putting the old pin and old seat together and measuring the combined length. Add about 0.05" or what you are comfortable cutting and start from there. You can always start long and file down. The final dimension is that the pin mushroom cap, should have about a 0.04" gap, to the face of the first stage. When you assemble the first stage, you can add the pin and the mushroom cap and measure that gap. Then, you can press down on the mushroom to push the seat open (it takes about 8 pounds of force). You need to see that the mushroom cap, can be pushed against the face of the first stage. You will notice that the pin without the mushroom cap is basically flush with the body of the assembled first stage. And it is fine to just use that as a guide.
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Post by Jim Perdway on Sept 20, 2021 17:30:19 GMT -8
Thank you for the information and explanation! I definitely have the time and patience, and with your detailed instructions I feel much better about giving it a try.
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Post by Jim Perdway on Sept 21, 2021 4:46:40 GMT -8
When getting the HPR, it looks like there are a few diaphragm options
The preferred choice is a single stage silicone diaphragm, however these don’t seem to be currently available. I probably won’t dive this until the spring or next summer, so I can wait if necessary.
The other options, if I can’t acquire one, are to either bend the tabs down or reposition the one I have, which seems to still be in very good condition. What would you guys do? Thanks
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Post by luis on Sept 21, 2021 5:26:54 GMT -8
The difference between VDH silicone diaphragm and any of the vintage diaphragm is huge.
I have some vintage diaphragm that are in excellent shape and they seem as flexible as when they were new. I would use them for diving without any reservation, but they are not as flexible as VDH silicone diaphragm.
Rob at The Scuba Museum also have some new silicone diaphragm that are very good. They are like half way in flexibility between the vintage diaphragms and the VDH ones.
Again any of them will work and with the HPR you will improve the performance. You can always upgrade the diaphragm later.
About the tabs, try to see if you can use it without bending them. Two stage vintage diaphragms are getting harder to find, so you may want to preserve that one if it is in good shape.
I guess, my recommendation is to get one from Rob for now and keep it as a spare when Bryan get new ones. And save your vintage one for a possible vintage restoration.
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Post by Jim Perdway on Sept 21, 2021 5:37:22 GMT -8
Thanks Luis, I’m glad you recommend against bending the tabs because I wasn’t too thrilled about the prospect of compromising a nice, original part. Unfortunately Rob is currently out of them, so I’ll reposition it until (if) I can get a silicone one
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lwp
Regular Diver
Posts: 16
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Post by lwp on Oct 2, 2021 13:35:07 GMT -8
On a related note in the spirit of this thread. I just put my first DA Aquamaster back together. I went ahead and purchased the cyclone first stage and the HPR second stage. I got it all back together and there are no obvious air leaks, but I have not had the chance to submerge it in water yet. After a few minutes of being pressurized, the IP slowly increases. What are the most likely things I should check that may be causing this? I have a couple of spare seals for the first stage and even a spare second stage blue seat if you think those may need replacing. I am open to suggestions since this is the first vintage regulator that I have ever rebuilt. Thanks.
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Post by scubalawyer on Oct 2, 2021 13:42:15 GMT -8
Only a related note in the spirit of this thread. I just put my first DA Aquamaster back together. I went ahead and purchased the cyclone first stage and the HPR second stage. I got it all back together and there are no obvious air leaks, but I have not had the chance to submerge it in water yet. After a few minutes of being pressurized, the IP slowly increases. What are the most likely things I should check that may be causing this? I have a couple of spare seals for the first stage and even a spare second stage blue seat if you think those may need replacing. I am open to suggestions since this is the first vintage regulator that I have ever rebuilt. Thanks. Did you cycle the reg a few hundred times to get the seat to set?
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lwp
Regular Diver
Posts: 16
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Post by lwp on Oct 2, 2021 13:45:49 GMT -8
No, not that many. I looked at the trouble shooting steps in the manual for a RAM and it says to turn off the air and see if it holds pressure. It does hold pressure, but even with the air off, the IP pressure has creeped up about 10 PSI in the last 5 minutes? I will try cycling the regulator some more if you think that will help.
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lwp
Regular Diver
Posts: 16
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Post by lwp on Oct 2, 2021 13:50:02 GMT -8
I just cycled it at least 300 times, and after letting it sit for a few minutes still pressurized, the IP pressure has continued to slowly increase from about 130 to 150 over the course of several minutes.
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Post by scubalawyer on Oct 2, 2021 14:29:50 GMT -8
I just cycled it at least 300 times, and after letting it sit for a few minutes still pressurized, the IP pressure has continued to slowly increase from about 130 to 150 over the course of several minutes. At that point, rather than tear the reg down I'll often just let the reg sit pressurized on the tank overnight then see where I am. I have DH regs that lock up rock solid at 135psi and others that will creep up 5 psi or so over 10-20 minutes no matter what I do. I have found microscopic damage to the 1st stage body volcano orifice but if you have a new Cyclone that should not be an issue. Maybe better minds than mine (and there are many) can assist.
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lwp
Regular Diver
Posts: 16
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Post by lwp on Oct 2, 2021 14:30:32 GMT -8
I may have found the problem. My LP hose that my pressure gauge is connected to was leaking. Would this make the IP change?
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lwp
Regular Diver
Posts: 16
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Post by lwp on Oct 3, 2021 6:52:02 GMT -8
I left the regulator pressurized over night. The IP pressure rose to about 160 psi on my gauge, but it has been holding steady at that pressure. Do any of you have any recommendations for what I should do next? Thanks for the help.
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Post by nikeajax on Oct 3, 2021 10:00:54 GMT -8
Might there be something wrong with the soft-seat? I'd inspect it to make sure it doesn't have any debris on it. Wipe it clean and reset your IP to 135-PSIG. Anyway, this is what I'd try first JB
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lwp
Regular Diver
Posts: 16
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Post by lwp on Oct 3, 2021 10:25:23 GMT -8
I removed the cyclone and attached it directly to a tank so I could put it in a bucket of water. Every couple of seconds or so a small bubble of air comes out of it. I contacted VDH and Bryan said that it could possibly be the volcano orifice or HP seat. I am going to try replacing those once I get new parts and see what it does then.
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