White Stag Deep I

[SeaRat]

Okay, I almost was ready to bid on this first stage, as it is really rare.



www.ebay.com/itm/363813178615?hash=item54b4f48cf7:g:cbIAAOSwt-JiZCZ8

But they want $25 for shipping on it. That's a deal breaker for me. This first stage, as unique as it is, would be a backup for me as I already have one that is functioning.

John

[artc]

Apr 29, 2022 17:08:31 GMT -8 SeaRat said:

Okay, I almost was ready to bid on this first stage, as it is really rare.



www.ebay.com/itm/363813178615?hash=item54b4f48cf7:g:cbIAAOSwt-JiZCZ8

But they want $25 for shipping on it. That's a deal breaker for me. This first stage, as unique as it is, would be a backup for me as I already have one that is functioning.

John

Hi John, I’m a big fan of White Stag regulators, but I’m not familiar with this one.  Can you tell me a little bit about it? Why is it unique? Thanks. 

[SeaRat]

Artc,

This is a very unique regulator, with a totally White Stage design; it is a floating diaphragm design, which is also balanced. Here’s the parts breakdown:

White Stag--007 by John Ratliff, on Flickr

I have not seen this design on any other manufacturer, and it provides great performance too. I have dived it several times, and love it.

White Stag Hard Shell U:W front view by John Ratliff, on Flickr

I have two White Stage DEEP second stages on this regulator, and they breathe great. Here’s the White Stag diagram of the second stage.

White Stag--006 by John Ratliff, on Flickr

And, a National Scuba Repair diagram for their second stage:

White Stag Regulator002 by John Ratliff, on Flickr

Note that in the above photo I’m also wearing a very unique, hard-shell White Stag BCD. The BCD is very simple, not like the Dacor Nautilus CVS, which is a constant volume system. The White Stag version was much smaller, and simply held the air in by its design, with two small holes at the lower end which would bleed air as you descended head-down. Here’s the BCD:

White Stage Manual BC-1 by John Ratliff, on Flickr

Here’s how I have my DEEP 1 set up currently:

IMG_1483 by John Ratliff, on Flickr

John

[artc]

Thanks for sharing John, the Deep I is a really interesting design. I’m trying to understand how the soft seat and volcano orifice work together. Does the poppet simply sit on the diaphragm?

[nikeajax]

Hi Art, please check your messages... MU-HAHAHAHA!

JB

[SeaRat]

May 26, 2022 20:20:52 GMT -8 artc said:

Thanks for sharing John, the Deep I is a really interesting design. I’m trying to understand how the soft seat and volcano orifice work together. Does the poppet simply sit on the diaphragm?

Yes, I'm pretty sure that's what happens.

John

[artc]

Hi John, I have another question The diaphragm looks like it goes way deep inside the body. How do you replace it and are there replacements or do you have to make your own? Happy Memorial Day. 

[nikeajax]

Art, I'm pretty sure they just use a regular-joe diaphragm...

JB

[vance]

The first time I saw a used HP diaphragm, I thought it must be formed like that at the factory. It's amazing that a flat rubber disk can take and retain that shape by merely being pressurized a few times!

[SeaRat]

White Stag did some innovative designs on scuba equipment too. Since we are talking about White Stag in the front-mount discussion, I thought I'd resurrect this thread on the White Stage regulators, and add a bit too. Here is their DEEP II, White Stag Sea Lung first stage.

IMG_1491 by John Ratliff, on Flickr

IMG_1481 by John Ratliff, on Flickr

IMG_1479 by John Ratliff, on Flickr

White Stag DEEP II002 by John Ratliff, on Flickr

John

[artc]

Merry Christmas, John. I’ve worked on SAS and Sportsways regulators that were exactly like your White Stag reg. I think I still have them stored away somewhere. They are a simple rebuild and very durable. Easy breathers too.

[SeaRat]

Dec 20, 2023 19:56:35 GMT -8 artc said:

Merry Christmas, John. I’ve worked on SAS and Sportsways regulators that were exactly like your White Stag reg. I think I still have them stored away somewhere. They are a simple rebuild and very durable. Easy breathers too.

Artc,

Maybe the DEEP II is from the Sportsways and SAS lines, but I haven’t yet seen any evidence that the DEEP I first stage was in a different manufacturer’s inventory. The second stages do look a lot like Sportsways second stages.

John

[SeaRat]

May 26, 2022 20:20:52 GMT -8 artc said:

Thanks for sharing John, the Deep I is a really interesting design. I’m trying to understand how the soft seat and volcano orifice work together. Does the poppet simply sit on the diaphragm?

I agree about the DEEP I being a unique design. It looks to be a balanced diaphragm design, and yes, that poppet does simply sit on the diaphragm. But there is a metal backing in the form of the base for the spring to sit upon, which apparently was enough for this design.

John

[cg43]

Hello John

The "Withe Stag DEEP 1" is a very interesting design .
But I cant figure out how it works by looking on your photo .
I read some early 2. Stages had tilt valves . In this case there is a need for an overpressure relase valve .
The parts you show on your picture can work as such a valve .
Are you sure there are no other valve parts in the 1. stage main body that are not on the photo ?


White Stag hard-shell BCD :

I'm very interested in the positon and size oft the hole's and your experience with the BCD . 

Greetings   Rainer

[SeaRat]

Dec 21, 2023 12:56:34 GMT -8 cg43 said:

Hello John

The "Withe Stag DEEP 1" is a very interesting design .
But I cant figure out how it works by looking on your photo .
I read some early 2. Stages had tilt valves . In this case there is a need for an overpressure relase valve .
The parts you show on your picture can work as such a valve .
Are you sure there are no other valve parts in the 1. stage main body that are not on the photo ?


White Stag hard-shell BCD :

I'm very interested in the positon and size oft the hole's and your experience with the BCD . 

Greetings   Rainer

The White Stag DEEP I first stage looks to me to be a balanced diaphragm design, but a rather radical design too. That’s all the parts, and it went back together and is functioning. I don’t have a breakdown diagram of this regulator though. I did some searching, and found the DEEP I parts diagram in a photo, by our own JB! JB, how about you scan that parts diagram for the DEEP I and post it here?

Here's my Deep-I that I still haven't worked on as I'm still needing that funky sized wrench to get the IP-adjuster off

The White Stage hard shell BCD works simply by displacement. Because of the bulge in the design, air is trapped inside, but subject to any pressure changes with depth. It is only when going upside down that air would leak from the small holes (I’ll look at the size later). Air can be dumped by the oral/power inflator too. It is not a large lifting capable BCD, but will compensate adequately for wet suit compression and a wetsuit’s loss of buoyancy. White Stag started in the diving industry as a wetsuit manufacturer, and then progressed into dive equipment. Because of its smaller size, it is very streamlined in the water, so this BCD works well in my opinion and experience.

The White Stag hard shell BCD is a commercial application of a very early BCD design using two plexiglas cylinders, hooked together with a tube connection and onto which an oral inflator was placed. This was in the early 1960s. These two plexiglas cylinders were attached to a dive cylinder on either side, and the oral inflation was a simple oral tube/valve used in life vests. It again used simple displacement as the mechanism of attaining additional buoyancy when the wetsuit compressed.

John