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Post by luis on Jan 15, 2023 18:42:52 GMT -8
You can see my bubbles in the video. They start as tiny bubbles, but they grow fast as they move away and then sometimes reform into bigger bubbles about 3 feet or more away from me. When they get that far away there is no noise. Most of the time the tiny bubbles just continue growing as they rise. Here is a picture of the inside of one of the cans. I think the lighter color can. The filler material I used is clear so you can see a lot of the 3D printed imperfections. But the final surface that clamps the diaphragm is all filled in and is sanded smooth. I re-designed the exhaust valve to have a much wider landing to make it easier to fill and sand into a very smooth sealing surface. I also tilted the valve surface down 2 more degrees (away from the diaphragm) than before, and you can see the diaphragm stops. The exhaust support spider is also different. I am also having to use a sealer on the tube and sand that smooth. The tiny holes look a lot bigger than they are because the 3D printing doesn’t do sharp edges. And I have to clean many of them with a tiny drill bit. An interesting issue: the black can on the left is the last 3D printed can I will work on black. The material is so incredibly shiny and dark that it is very hard see what I am doing. I like the one on the right the best, but I have not head back from the vendor that produced that can. It has been over a year since the last time I was actually working on these cans and this project. I have two more printed cans that I put aside for a while, but I need to finish sanding and finishing them. It is not a lot of work, but I have to put time to do it. The other huge improvement (IMHO) is my new DSV flow diverter and the amount of venturi assistance I am able to adjust into my HPR second stage... stay tuned... Luis, in reading back through this thread, and your above discussion of the exhaust, you mention the “diaphragm stops”. Is the purpose of the stops to keep the diaphragm from coming into contact with the exhaust mushroom valve? I’m asking this because I recall in another of your posts, you saying that the Argonaut Kraken was designed to live forever and that if the plastic cans/boxes ever became damaged beyond use, the whole thing could be housed in a set of DA Aquamaster cans. My cans did become damaged, so I had my Kraken put into a set of DA cans and this was before knowing that this was something you all considered when designing the Kraken. Anyway, we used a duckbill eliminator and on a dive last summer, around 100 feet, the whole double hose part of the reg locked up and wasn’t breathable. Fortunately I remained calm and switched to my back up single hose. I stayed on single hose throughout the dive, occasionally trying the double hose and finally toward the end, it freed itself and I could breathe it again. Was this because the diaphragm and the exhaust mushroom came in contact with one another and stuck, not allowing the inhalation diaphragm to move? Is that why you have “diaphragm stops” on your integrated exhaust? "Is the purpose of the stops to keep the diaphragm from coming into contact with the exhaust mushroom valve?" Yes, the diaphragm cannot be allowed to block the exhaust valve. The original Argonaut Kraken design has a stop and I tilted the valve away from the diaphragm, but my new design improves on that. The "duckbill-eliminator" that Bryan (at VDH) sold also has a diaphragm stop and the valve is tilted away from the diaphragm. I have had a few reports of issues with the Argonaut original cans, but I have actually never heard of any exhaust interference issues with the VDH duckbill-eliminator. When you say: "the whole double hose part of the reg locked up and wasn’t breathable", are you saying that you could not exhale or you could not inhale? It is possible for the exhaust valve to get stuck to the diaphragm like a suction cup if they come in contact with each other, but that is very unlikely with the VDH duckbill eliminator, not only due to the diaphragm stop, but more so due to the angle-back position of the valve. The valve doesn't face in a parallel with the plane of the diaphragm. I may need some more details of what you experience to try to help you. If needed, I will be glad to talk to you on the phone.
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Post by luis on Jan 15, 2023 19:08:44 GMT -8
Luis, How are things going with the flow diverters? I am at the point where I have adjusted my Phoenix to where only 1/2 of a hole is open. This is made a big difference to me as far as ease of breathing goes, but I am starting to worry about blow-by at the DSV mouthpiece. Things are already a little wild as I bob around on the surface after a dive before engaging the dsv. On another note: I am very interested in your noise project. I have been musing on how and where exhalation noise is generated. I am wondering if larger holes with greater separation would more effectively suppress bubble recombination and the formation of larger bubbles outside the reg. Again I wonder what part of bubble formation generates noise? Take care. I am very pleased with my new flow diverter. It really allows me to adjust the amount of venturi flow. I always have to close the DSV on the surface. I actually keep the DSV closed at all times, except when I am breathing from it. The silencer works, but I do not have instrumentation to actually measure performance. I can only do side-by-side comparison and I can try to listen my breathing from videos that I have taken. At this point my exhalation noise is lower than the inhalation noise. The holes have to be tiny for it to work. The separation between the holes is a lot less critical than producing very small bubbles. One very interesting new observation came from an unsolicited comment I got from the boat captain in Cozumel last November. I have been diving with Scuba Club Cozumel for over a decade and for our group I always request the same boar, the Reef Star. The dives in Cozumel are drift diving and the captain of the boat always tracks us by our bubbles. The captain of the Reef Star, Pacheco, has lots of experience keeping track of the divers by their bubbles. He said that he could not see my bubbles. He could see the group and our SMB (surface marker buoy) at the end of the end of the dive. But, as I approach the boat from underwater, he could see me, because the water was so clear and he is in a fly-bridge, but he could not really see my bubbles from up there. I am going to look more into this side effect. I didn't think it was going to have that noticeable effect.
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Post by Aquala1 on Jan 16, 2023 10:40:30 GMT -8
Luis, I couldn’t inhale at all. It was almost like I was out of air. I might have been able to exhale through the double hose, but once I went to my single hose, I never purposefully tried to inhale through the single hose and exhale through the double. I guess I inadvertently did as I was trying to free it up, but exhalation seemed impossible. Probably because the exhaust side was flooded if the diaphragm and mushroom sealed themself together.
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Post by luis on Jan 16, 2023 14:11:35 GMT -8
Are you using a duckbill eliminator from VDH?
It does sound like your diaphragm might have gotten stuck to the exhaust valve. That is very rare, but I have seen it happen and we have been able to reproduce in a controlled testing environment.
I will send you a text message with my email. I would like to get some pictures of your setup.
If you are not in a rush, just give me a couple of days... I am having some computer issues. I just had to have my hard-drive replaced.
Thanks
Added:
If that is what happened, there are a couple of solutions that will post here, but I would like to get a bit more information before jumping to a conclusion.
I will post some pictures of a couple of options that I have used, but it is going to take a bit of time.
Thanks
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Post by snark3 on Jan 16, 2023 14:45:12 GMT -8
Luis, I couldn’t inhale at all. It was almost like I was out of air. I might have been able to exhale through the double hose, but once I went to my single hose, I never purposefully tried to inhale through the single hose and exhale through the double. I guess I inadvertently did as I was trying to free it up, but exhalation seemed impossible. Probably because the exhaust side was flooded if the diaphragm and mushroom sealed themself together. I had a Snark 3 with this problem. No air would pass through it. I went so far as to remove the exhaust can and depress the levers, still no airflow. I know air was getting at least as far as the filter because after I turned the air off I could (with great difficulty) loosen the yoke screw, and would get a pop as the pressure released. I don't know if the problem was the HP diaphragm or in the first stage itself but after replacing the HP diaphragm and disassembling and cleaning the first stage it worked fine. It remains one of my favorite DH regs
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banana
Regular Diver
Posts: 18
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Post by banana on Jan 20, 2023 6:25:06 GMT -8
I am very pleased with my new flow diverter. It really allows me to adjust the amount of venturi flow. Will you be offering the flow diverter commercially as an upgrade to the VDH DSV?
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Post by luis on Jan 21, 2023 18:25:04 GMT -8
I am very pleased with my new flow diverter. It really allows me to adjust the amount of venturi flow. Will you be offering the flow diverter commercially as an upgrade to the VDH DSV? I actually only do the design (including the engineering analysis and modeling of my designs), and sometimes, I make some prototypes of my designs. I also do all my own testing, but this is all just a hobby to me. I don't produce anything as a manufacturer and have never received any money (or any financial compensation), for my designs. I gave VDH the rights to produce a number of my designs since he was doing a great job in producing parts and components that benefited our vintage community. I have the idea (maybe I am dreaming), that by not receiving any financial compensation and just providing the designs to be used at their own risk, that maybe I am little bit isolated from liability, but that is a different subject. Back to your question. I am personally not going to provide anything "commercially", but there is the possibility that someone else may provide it. At this point it looks like The Scuba Museum is trying to offer some of parts that used to be available from VDH. It is all going to take some time to sort out. The only thing I will continue to offer is free advise...
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Post by SeaRat on Jan 23, 2023 20:08:01 GMT -8
I still have plans to revisit that project.... Thinking about incorporating Luis's silincer method on USD exhaust boxes.... This is very interesting for me, having sold my Argonaut, but retained my Aquamaster Phoenix/HPR. Every time I try to imagine a micro port exhaust I see the bubbles quickly recombining. But from what Luis has said this is not entirely the case. I can't say that I have noticed a dramatic improvement in approaching fish with the DH. I've always had good luck with judicious breath control. But I can see the benefit of converting from an exhaust glub to a fizz. Banana, I’ve found that the double hose regulator has distinct advantages when approaching small fish like the red-sided shiner I see in Oregon’s fresh water. A double hose regulator probable doesn’t matter much for larger fish though. Johh
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banana
Regular Diver
Posts: 18
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Post by banana on Jan 24, 2023 10:13:39 GMT -8
Thanks, Luis, you are a true craftsman. John: Thanks for your note. I'll be taking my Hotrod Phoenix DAAM to Bangka, Island, Indonesia for three weeks on Sunday. Lots of little fish there. Most of the little reef fish there are pretty territorial and stand their ground. I've been attacked by pissed off Damselfish numerous times and have lived to tell the tale.
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Post by SeaRat on Jan 24, 2023 18:07:45 GMT -8
Thanks, Luis, you are a true craftsman. John: Thanks for your note. I'll be taking my Hotrod Phoenix DAAM to Bangka, Island, Indonesia for three weeks on Sunday. Lots of little fish there. Most of the little reef fish there are pretty territorial and stand their ground. I've been attacked by pissed off Damselfish numerous times and have lived to tell the tale. Banana, I was attacked and headbutted by a very territorial female cabazon at the Edmonds Underwater Park, Edmonds, Washington USA. I think all these fish work hard to protect nests if their natural history has to do with nest building. Tell us about your trip to Indonesia when you get back. John
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Post by vance on Jan 24, 2023 19:06:36 GMT -8
Once again, we veer crazily off-topic. That won't stop me from this post, though!
Years ago, a friend and I were attacked repeatedly by a 8" triggerfish while diving in Hawaii. We got too close to his rock. The assault was outrageously vicious for a little-bitty guy against giants. He was determined to drive us off.
Eventually, he did!
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Post by artc on Jan 24, 2023 20:37:43 GMT -8
Once again, we veer crazily off-topic. That won't stop me from this post, though! Years ago, a friend and I were attacked repeatedly by a 8" triggerfish while diving in Hawaii. We got too close to his rock. The assault was outrageously vicious for a little-bitty guy against giants. He was determined to drive us off. Eventually, he did! Yup, Hawaiian fish can be a**holes. Numerous times, When diving reefs, I’ve been attacked by 6” Sergeant Majors. Nasty little creatures.
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Post by scubalawyer on Jan 25, 2023 7:44:54 GMT -8
Once again, we veer crazily off-topic. That won't stop me from this post, though! Years ago, a friend and I were attacked repeatedly by a 8" triggerfish while diving in Hawaii. We got too close to his rock. The assault was outrageously vicious for a little-bitty guy against giants. He was determined to drive us off. Eventually, he did! Yup, Hawaiian fish can be a**holes. Numerous times, When diving reefs, I’ve been attacked by 6” Sergeant Majors. Nasty little creatures. My encounter with pissy sea creatures is a tad different. In the late 1970's I surfaced from a dive off Grand Bahama Island between a 400 pound mommy dolphin and her baby. Mommy headbutted me in the chest at full speed bruising my sternum and making it painful to breath for a few days.
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Post by SeaRat on Jan 25, 2023 10:45:03 GMT -8
Luis, in reading back through this thread, and your above discussion of the exhaust, you mention the “diaphragm stops”. Is the purpose of the stops to keep the diaphragm from coming into contact with the exhaust mushroom valve? I’m asking this because I recall in another of your posts, you saying that the Argonaut Kraken was designed to live forever and that if the plastic cans/boxes ever became damaged beyond use, the whole thing could be housed in a set of DA Aquamaster cans. My cans did become damaged, so I had my Kraken put into a set of DA cans and this was before knowing that this was something you all considered when designing the Kraken. Anyway, we used a duckbill eliminator and on a dive last summer, around 100 feet, the whole double hose part of the reg locked up and wasn’t breathable. Fortunately I remained calm and switched to my back up single hose. I stayed on single hose throughout the dive, occasionally trying the double hose and finally toward the end, it freed itself and I could breathe it again. Was this because the diaphragm and the exhaust mushroom came in contact with one another and stuck, not allowing the inhalation diaphragm to move? Is that why you have “diaphragm stops” on your integrated exhaust? "Is the purpose of the stops to keep the diaphragm from coming into contact with the exhaust mushroom valve?" Yes, the diaphragm cannot be allowed to block the exhaust valve. The original Argonaut Kraken design has a stop and I tilted the valve away from the diaphragm, but my new design improves on that. The "duckbill-eliminator" that Bryan (at VDH) sold also has a diaphragm stop and the valve is tilted away from the diaphragm. I have had a few reports of issues with the Argonaut original cans, but I have actually never heard of any exhaust interference issues with the VDH duckbill-eliminator. When you say: "the whole double hose part of the reg locked up and wasn’t breathable", are you saying that you could not exhale or you could not inhale? It is possible for the exhaust valve to get stuck to the diaphragm like a suction cup if they come in contact with each other, but that is very unlikely with the VDH duckbill eliminator, not only due to the diaphragm stop, but more so due to the angle-back position of the valve. The valve doesn't face in a parallel with the plane of the diaphragm. I may need some more details of what you experience to try to help you. If needed, I will be glad to talk to you on the phone. Maybe if we had this exhaust silencer, the fish would not see us an a "threat" and not attack us! John
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