|
|
Post by Tusker on Sept 4, 2022 14:43:28 GMT -8
I went to pick up a Scubapro tank I won on eBay today and ended up leaving the guy's house with two other tanks — an identical Scubapro and a 1959 Healthways 72. I originally thought the Scubapro tank was a 72 when I bid but then I noticed it was actually rated to 3,000 PSI, I guess making it a 95. The Scubapro tanks have an original hydro of 1971 and a VIP from 1972. None of them have any air in them and all of the valves will undoubtedly need servicing. ![]()  Tank haul September 2022 by Jacob Van Buren, on Flickr In order to take them to a local hydrostatic tester, is there anything I need to do to prep them? |
|
|
|
Post by Tusker on Sept 4, 2022 14:51:30 GMT -8
|
|
|
|
Post by nikeajax on Sept 4, 2022 15:23:52 GMT -8
Hi Jacob! I would recommend taking them to a shop that does fire extinguishers for your hydro, then to your local dive shop for the viz. This will be a whole lot cheaper and the dive shop probably takes them there anyway. A FE-shop will tumble them if need be: the shop I take mine to in Oakland charges me as I recall 15bux to hydro and 5bux to tumble. Some but not all dive shops can be pretty petty about old gear, especially steel 72s. You need a Healthways double hose to go with that tank: they gotta match, them's the rules... What, yo didn't know that  JB |
|
|
|
Post by Tusker on Sept 4, 2022 15:54:54 GMT -8
JB, yeah the place I’ve found locally is shop marketed as “air systems” with an onsite hydro facility. I was wondering if I needed to tank the valves off or anything like that before taking them by.
Maybe down the road! Right now I need to get the regs I do have working.
Jacob
|
|
|
|
Post by nikeajax on Sept 4, 2022 16:03:38 GMT -8
COWARD!  It wouldn't hurt if you took the valves off, but seeing as they are a professional shop, you could just send 'em in as-is... JB
|
|
|
|
Post by antique diver on Sept 5, 2022 11:27:02 GMT -8
JB, yeah the place I’ve found locally is shop marketed as “air systems” with an onsite hydro facility. I was wondering if I needed to tank the valves off or anything like that before taking them by. Maybe down the road! Right now I need to get the regs I do have working. Jacob If you have the tools I would recommend removing valves for your own inspection first. I like to see the internal condition for myself, so I always remove valves and put a good light into them for a look-see. I also have them leave the valves out or loose once tested so I can inspect again to make sure they were dried properly. Turns out not every shop does a good job every time of judging the internal condition or of drying them after test. Recently had a well known mobile hydro facility test eight aluminum cylinders. Three came back with visible water droplets and/or small puddles in the bottom when I inspected before installing valves and filling. Had to dry them myself. Not quite as bad on the aluminum, but a steel tank could easily be ruined by a careless tester. |
|
|
|
Post by luis on Sept 5, 2022 12:48:52 GMT -8
JB, yeah the place I’ve found locally is shop marketed as “air systems” with an onsite hydro facility. I was wondering if I needed to tank the valves off or anything like that before taking them by. Maybe down the road! Right now I need to get the regs I do have working. Jacob If you have the tools I would recommend removing valves for your own inspection first. I like to see the internal condition for myself, so I always remove valves and put a good light into them for a look-see. I also have them leave the valves out or loose once tested so I can inspect again to make sure they were dried properly. Turns out not every shop does a good job every time of judging the internal condition or of drying them after test. Recently had a well known mobile hydro facility test eight aluminum cylinders. Three came back with visible water droplets and/or small puddles in the bottom when I inspected before installing valves and filling. Had to dry them myself. Not quite as bad on the aluminum, but a steel tank could easily be ruined by a careless tester. I have never heard of a mobile hydro facility. I am not sure if I like it… I have to think about that… But, my first impression is not good. I agree about removing my own valves and I always do my own VIP. A word of caution. Removing and/ or installing a tapered valve does require some tools (in particular to hold the cylinder) and a little knowledge. Anyone can learn how to do it, but one very common mistake is that some think that it is safer and/ or best practice to place the wrench on the sides of the valve. That is the easiest way to ruin a valve! The actual best practice is to place the wrench across the face of the valve. The wrench across the side can easily deform and roll the edge of the valve, just slightly, closing in the opening where the yoke fitting sits into the O-ring. Once that is done the valve is useless. Putting the wrench on the face can, in some extreme cases, leave some small marks, but it will not affect the functionality of the valve. I cannot stress how important this is and I have seen this mistake done by a number of new dive shop operators. Then they always blame the old valves being the problem. BTW, I prefer to use a BIG a$$ adjustable wrench, and tighten it hard against the face of the valve. A fix wrench will never be as tight and a valve is not a standard wrench size. I also have a chain vise large enough to handle any scuba cylinder. IMHO, most modern dive shops don’t have the proper tool. Good hydro stations should know how to remove a tapered valve. The Scubapro valves do have a set of flats at the base of the valve, but it can be hard to find a wrench that fits that narrow spot. It is of ten just easier to place an adjustable wrench across the face of the Scubapro valve. Those valves have O-ring seals so they should not require much torque to loosen them up. I own a couple of those 3000 (3300 with the + stamp) cylinders. They are super heavy. |
|
|
|
Post by cnotthoff on Sept 5, 2022 13:12:48 GMT -8
Your Scubapro cylinders have Depth Compensating Adjustable Reserve (DCAR) valves. They are fun valves, but can be tricky to service. They particularly like to leak out of the little hole in the top. That is where the reserve feels ambient pressure to compensate for depth. The o-ring there is tiny (001?) and difficult to replace without breaking the stem. Be ready to catch the spring and detent for the reserve lever. tiny parts like to roll away.
I'll start my broken record now. Since those valves have been in service for a long time, it's time to replace their burst assemblies. They may even have the single-hole plugs installed with a flat-blade screwdriver. Those are very dangerous. Replace all components of the burst assembies with the appropriate pressure rating. Most now come as an integrated unit to make this easy. Install the unit to the proper torque in clean threads.
I just sold 2 DCAR valves on Ebay. If you have problems with any parts on your's, LMK.
Good Dives,
Charlie
|
|
|
|
Post by Tusker on Sept 5, 2022 16:13:46 GMT -8
Just to be clear, the face of the valve is the side where the regulator would meet the O-ring? Would it be best to place something between the wrench and the valve or just go metal on metal? Finding a vice would be a good idea. What's the best position to have the tank in before attempting the valve removal, it sounds as though sideways or upside down may be the best idea?
You're right, Luis. Empty they feel like they're at least ten pounds heavier than a full AL 80.
Charlie, the valve was part of the reason I bid on the tank. I remembered seeing the DCAR on an Alec Pierce video but forgot what it was called — thanks for reminding me. Also thanks for the spring and detent tip, I probably would have lost them. Once all three valves are off it will be time to learn how to service a valve, I also have a Healthways J (3/4" unfortunately, I think a period-correct Healthways J for this 72 would be great fun) that needs doing.
Jacob
|
|
|
|
Post by vance on Sept 6, 2022 15:46:16 GMT -8
|
|
|
|
Post by SeaRat on Sept 6, 2022 18:32:44 GMT -8
Okay, I have some input on these valves. First, getting them off is much easier, provided you don’t have a chain vice, by placing them in those twin tank bands, tightening the bands, then kneeling on one cylinder and with a big adjustable wrench, get the 1/2 inch tapered thread valve off. You can get tremendous leverage that way, and the same goes for putting the 1/2 inch tapered thread valve back on.
Now, the 1/2 inch tapered thread valves require Teflon tape to be applied to the threads. The tape needs to be applied around the threads in such a manner that they are not unwound by screwing the threads into the tank (I cannot remember whether that is clockwise or counterclockwise; I think counterclockwise). The 1/2 inch tapered thread valve needs to be screwed in very, very tight to have a non-leak situation. Most dive shops don’t know how to do this, and will thus refuse to handle these valves. My LDS is one of those.
I have seen the 1/2 inch tapered thread valves using some kind of sealer, but be sure if that’s the route you go that it is compatible with breathing air if it gets into the tank. I would not use a sealer, but I’m open if others have used it successfully.
The Scubapro valves have that top, threaded portion to adjust the reserve valve spring. In the up position, you have around 300 psig of reserve. If you screw it in (I think push it down and a 1/4 turn clockwise) it has a 500-600 reserve setting. That is the purpose of that screw on top. This was in answer to cave divers in the 1960s requesting more reserve from their J-valves. J-valves subsequently fell out of favor for cave divers, in favor of SPGs in the mid-1970s.
One other feature of the Scubapro (and some Dacor) valves is you can reverse the lever direction so that they cannot be inadvertently knocked down (non-reserve setting) by hitting the cylinder against something hard. In other words, the lever, when up, is pointed toward the diver’s shoulder, rather than out and away from the diver. A lot of divers requested this feature too.
John
|
|
|
|
Post by Tusker on Sept 9, 2022 14:08:18 GMT -8
Thanks for all of the advice everyone — the valves are now off! Funnily enough the 72 seems to be a little nicer on the inside, but all three really need to be tumbled when I take them in for hydro. After that it will be time to learn how to rebuild valves.
Jacob
|
|
|
|
Post by vance on Sept 12, 2022 8:51:05 GMT -8
My hydro shop won’t tumble 1/2” tanks any more.  |
|
|
|
Post by nikeajax on Sept 12, 2022 10:57:49 GMT -8
Phil, is that Acme, in Oakland you're talking about  JB |
|
|
|
Post by cnotthoff on Sept 12, 2022 15:12:30 GMT -8
My hydro shop won’t tumble 1/2” tanks any more. That's because they're a huge pain in the butt. Getting tumbling media in and out of that tiny little opening takes a lot of shaking and fiddling, and forever. Since I'm at the point in my life where I try to work on stuff I enjoy, tumbling those nasty little tanks is out. If you're interested in tumbling you own tanks, there may still be a tumbler available in the East Bay. A friend of mine died leaving many tanks, old dive gear, and a tumbler. I'm not sure where that stuff is now, but can ask. Good Dives, Charlie |
|
