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Post by donato on Dec 14, 2005 3:42:38 GMT -8
Hi,
I saw you guys talking about rejuvenating neoprene and also about Aquala drysuits. I have a similar question.
I own an Aquala dry suit and it's made out of two layers of rubber, green on the outside, white inside, and glued together as I guess all Aquala suits are.
I want to protect the rubber from deterioration, both during use and during indoor storage.
Can anyone recommend a product that is good for protecting this kind of rubber, that is fairly well available in stores, and maybe that can be sprayed on as a liquid?
Will Armorall work, or is it bad for this kind of rubber?
What are some of you guys that own Aquala suits using? Thanks in advance,
Ross Donato
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Post by SeaRat on Dec 14, 2005 13:15:45 GMT -8
Aquala in the early days recommend talcum powder. But talc is not good to be inhaled. I have used corn starch, mainly to keep moisture off the rubber.
Rubber products are deteriorated by ozone too. So keeping them in a ziploc plastic bag would help them, along with the powder.
If you use a liquid, I'd put in on, leave it for a day or so, then remove it as much as possible, and again use a powder (corn starch) to keep it dry, and seal it away from ozone (generated by electric motors and other appliances, including copiers).
obviously, after use, the suit needs to be rinsed in fresh water, then hung to dry. It needs hanging inside-out first, then right-side out until completely dry before storing it.
John
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Post by donato on Dec 14, 2005 14:52:56 GMT -8
Thanks for the advice, John. It certianly helps.
These suits are made of vulcanized rubber, right? What do you (or anyone else) think of using liquid spray-on products specifically designed to moisturize and protect vulcanized rubber from UV rays? They make such things for automotive use. Are they applicable without damage in this case?
I'm a little confused about what's meant by keeping it "dry". The rubber seems to be drying out and I was thinking I might prolong it's life if I kept it moist with a good rubber protectant. No?
Thanks,
Ross Donato
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Post by RMannix on Dec 14, 2005 15:14:52 GMT -8
automotive Armor-All has (or at least used to have ) a warning not to use on rubber. I use a pump spray bottle of silicone on most of my rubber dive gear
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Post by SeaRat on Dec 14, 2005 15:57:59 GMT -8
Rubber which is allowed to stay wet with water will start sticking together, and will be difficult to separate after time--it will adhere to itself. This is why it was recommended to use talcum powder. I no longer recommend talc (talcum powder, soapston) because there are some respiratory effects from long-term exposures: www.cdc.gov/niosh/idlh/soapston.htmlKeeping rubber "wet" with an oil-based product could affect the seams by delaminating them. Most of these compounds have some constituent that is a solvent, and this is not good for glued or volcanized seams. That said, for a short-term application to keep the rubber flexible, it probably is okay, but don't leave it on the suit (I would try it first an a very small section, if you feel it is needed to rejuvinate the suit). But get that material off the suit after it has been on for several hours, or a day. Don't leave it on, or perhaps you could find that suit delaminating. I am not an expert here, so I would suggest anyone reading this comment here too. John
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Post by donato on Dec 14, 2005 16:34:27 GMT -8
Okay guys, thanks. This is helping a lot. I get what John is saying about not leaving the suit wet with water; and about oil based liquids being a potential problem. Good to know.
RMannix said ArmorAll is probably not good for rubber; thanks for that info. He also mentioned that he is using spray silicone on his rubber gear. I think I'm getting close to an answer here.
Can you tell me what kind of spray silicone product you use (product name) please?
I saw something on the 'Net last night for something (can't remember the name; it's probably still in my History file) that I'm going to go back and check out. I think it had the number 40 or 44 in the name (not WD40, but does it ring any bells with anyone?). But it said it was for protecting vulcanized rubber from deterioration and UV rays, and I do believe it was silicone based.
RMannix, if you can tell me a little more about the silicone product you're using it might help a lot. I'd really like to get some protection on the suit before long.
BTW: if you were using this silicone product on a vulcanized rubber dry suit, would you put a light coating of the product on the inside; wipe it off; let it dry a bit; and then apply it to the outside of the suit?
I guess what I'm asking is: is it necessary or wise to apply protectant to the inside and outside of a two-layer suit like Aquala makes?
Thank you all for your help. It is tremendously appreciated.
Ross Donato
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Post by BLT on Dec 14, 2005 17:13:32 GMT -8
Be careful with silicone products since they can affect seal replacement. From what I understand, glue won't adhere to siliconed rubber. This is a problem if you ever need to replace your neck or wrist seal...
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Post by luis on Dec 14, 2005 17:13:36 GMT -8
I posted this a few weeks ago in a different thread. I thinks it applies here as well. I have been wanting to ask if anyone has ever used 303 Protectant on rubber parts: www.303products.com/main.php?infopage=productsI used it on my first kayaking drytop latex seals with incredible results. The seals lasted for over 10 years. This is about three times longer than these seals would typically last. Whitewater kayaking is pretty tough on the seals. Among other factors, the sun exposure can last many hours per trip. The manufacturer, Kokatat recommends 303 for its drytops and drysuits seals (they include a free sample with its suits). I have been thinking about using 303 Protectant on the hoses, duckbills, etc, but I would like to know if anyone has any experience with it. 303 is popular as a rubber protectant among kayakers and other boaters; why is it not more common for use on diving gear?
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Post by cstmwrks on Dec 14, 2005 18:32:46 GMT -8
An Aquala suit that has been givin great "care" with silicone for any length of time is in fact a nightmare to deal with when it comes to repairs. I know as I have delt with repairing a few treated in this maner. The two ply rubber is pretty darn good for having no fabric layer.. the trade off is the glue that makes the seams does not realy fuse the two parts that well. Over time the seams will weaken and silicone will help advance the seam decay. When it all starts to fall apart.. it realy falls apart. The old " store in a cool dry place, away from electric motors with a dusting of corn starch" is likely the best medicine in the long run. The softer (shore A I think ) rubbers used in diving suits only have so much life to them.. like it or not.
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Post by luis on Dec 14, 2005 19:26:53 GMT -8
I can’t speak of how 303 would work on this application (or for that matter on any other application), but my experience with the drytop’s latex rubber seals was excellent.
It didn’t affect the bonding between the seals and the rest of the suit and when it was time to replace the seals it didn’t seam to have done any harm. Bonding the new seals was not a problem.
I have no idea what is in 303, but it doesn’t have an oily consistency. I don’t think it is silicon based either. Its consistency is like water, but white.
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Post by cstmwrks on Dec 15, 2005 6:04:07 GMT -8
Luis, 303 is whats called a silicone emulsion, watery and white.. dead on discription. Silicones are produced to disperse in either petrolium based liquids or water, the water dispersed variety is called an emulsion. Oh, and when I said these silicones take there toll on seams over time, I should point out that I'm talking years, not one season. I've done some work on VERY old Aqualas. The white lineing is yellowed with age.
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Post by JES on Dec 15, 2005 7:57:03 GMT -8
Luis, 303 is whats called a silicone emulsion, watery and white.. dead on description. Silicones are produced to disperse in either petroleum based liquids or water, the water dispersed variety is called an emulsion. Oh, and when I said these silicones take there toll on seams over time, I should point out that I'm talking years, not one season. I've done some work on VERY old Aqualas. The white lining is yellowed with age. Per the 303 website: "303 contains no petrochemicals or silicone oils" The MSDS sheet lists the 303 formula as proprietary.
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Post by RMannix on Dec 15, 2005 9:30:51 GMT -8
Okay guys, thanks. This is helping a lot. I get what John is saying about not leaving the suit wet with water; and about oil based liquids being a potential problem. Good to know. RMannix said ArmorAll is probably not good for rubber; thanks for that info. He also mentioned that he is using spray silicone on his rubber gear. I think I'm getting close to an answer here. Can you tell me what kind of spray silicone product you use (product name) please? I saw something on the 'Net last night for something (can't remember the name; it's probably still in my History file) that I'm going to go back and check out. I think it had the number 40 or 44 in the name (not WD40, but does it ring any bells with anyone?). But it said it was for protecting vulcanized rubber from deterioration and UV rays, and I do believe it was silicone based. RMannix, if you can tell me a little more about the silicone product you're using it might help a lot. I'd really like to get some protection on the suit before long. BTW: if you were using this silicone product on a vulcanized rubber dry suit, would you put a light coating of the product on the inside; wipe it off; let it dry a bit; and then apply it to the outside of the suit? I guess what I'm asking is: is it necessary or wise to apply protectant to the inside and outside of a two-layer suit like Aquala makes? Thank you all for your help. It is tremendously appreciated. Ross Donato I use Trident available at my LDS, but I don't have an Aquala-type suit. I use this on fins, hoses, masks, exhaust tees, etc.
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Post by cstmwrks on Dec 15, 2005 10:09:10 GMT -8
Per the 303 website:
"303 contains no petrochemicals or silicone oils"
The MSDS sheet lists the 303 formula as proprietary.
Hi RMannix, Both claims could very well be true, and it can still be a silicone emulsion. I would still bet it contains one of the following: DiMethyl PolySiloxane, Octylphenoxypolethoxyethanol or EthoxylatedNonyl Phenol. All three are what you find in a jug of silicone emulsion concentrate. I have no idea how far one can push the boundries of truth in advertising or to protect a formula but silicone oil is a VERY generic term and only one part of a larger family of silicone based products. So if your bottle of juice says: contains 10% real juice and consumer laws allows "real" juice to be watered down by 50% and still call it real, did you buy 10% real juice or only 5% ??
I gotta go dip another drysuit! Bill
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Post by BLT on Dec 15, 2005 14:22:20 GMT -8
I forgot to mention that I have only seen one drysuit manufacturer that actually recommends silicone based products on their latex seals and that is OS Systems, with the caveat that you start applying the silicone when the seal is brand spankin' new to seal OUT contaminents and that you continue to use it for the life of the seal. They say that if you add silicone after using the seal, you will be sealing contaminents INTO the seal and speed up the decay process, not slow it down. I also remember reading on their site (a couple years ago) that they use a different glue that is not affected by the silicone. They also have you use MEK to prep the area to be glued, which I assume will clean off much of the Silicone (and hopefully not damage the suit). Speaking of Drysuits, you also need to be wary of what lubes you use on the zipper, since you don't want silicone where you will need to glue in a new zipper...
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