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Post by SeaRat on Nov 25, 2023 17:43:13 GMT -8
Our good member, Rainer, has asked for a thread on the Heinke regulators. He has some ideas that he wants to pursue too for new exhausts based upon some of the Heinke concepts. So this is the place for them. I'm taking a few diagrams of these regulators from the CG-45 website to show some of these designs, which look to be two-stage with the second stage a tilt valve stage. This apparently (I'm not familiar with this regulator) is the first of their regulators, with a really unique exhaust on "horns." And here is their Merlin regulator. All these can be found with explanations on the CG-45 website: www.cg-45.com/regulators/Heinke/index.shtmlNow, for any who have experience with these regulators, especially the early ones, how did the performance of the exhaust "horns" compare with other contemporary regulators? And, was this an attempt to get around the Cousteau-Gagnan patents on the Aqualung? John
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cg43
Senior Diver
Posts: 91
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Post by cg43 on Nov 26, 2023 13:53:13 GMT -8
Hello
Thank's ,John for the nice presentation !
I'm sure the long horn's are an attempt to go arround theCousteau/Gagnan patents . For the funtion there ist no need to make these horn's so long . They are realy far away for Cousteau/Gagnan .
The explanation's for the compensation is easy :
On top of each valve is a plate and a weight ball that add's exact the nessesary force (for every angel the reg.is rotated) to avoid freeflow if a horn is highter than the center of the main diaphragm . I will post the calculation later . This compensation works for every horn independed , it has nothing to do with the number of horn's . The horns rotated down the center of the main diaphragm act as usualy valves do . To open we must create ambient pressure and this is highter than pressure center main diaphragm . To avoid this (for every angel the reg. can be rotated) the heinke uses two horn's in line . Up to now everything looks perfect .
What may cause issues is that with the weight's we add INERTIA to the system . This slow's down the reaction of the valve and may cause oscillations . If the heinke had such problems they probably solved that . Water is a good stuff for dampening oscillations , but the exhale valve parts act both in water and air . I can't calculate this , and this is the main reason I asked for experience with the TWIN HORN'S
Greetings Rainer
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Post by nikeajax on Nov 26, 2023 17:30:39 GMT -8
HE-YIKES!That's way too much for me to read and understand, but where is the over-pressure-valve? I see that it has dual-tilt-valves, was this to compensate for, I'm guessing, no OPV? JB
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Post by SeaRat on Nov 26, 2023 22:34:29 GMT -8
JB,
‘Very good point, but I see right in the middle of the diagram you posted above a note stating, “Relief Valve Ass.”
John
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Post by nikeajax on Nov 27, 2023 8:33:37 GMT -8
Huh! I don't know how you read that... it looks like it says, "Pallet View Navy". JB
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Post by SeaRat on Nov 27, 2023 9:18:31 GMT -8
Huh! I don't know how you read that... it looks like it says, "Pallet View Navy". JB I cannot find that "Pallet View Navy" in the drawing. But I do note that the text at the top states: John
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Post by vance on Nov 27, 2023 11:02:01 GMT -8
While JB sees "Pallet View Navy" and John sees "Relief Valve Ass", I'm sure it reads "Relief Valve Assy". JB's is a dyslexic's perspective, but John's is 12 yo boy, which is something I can appreciate!
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Post by SeaRat on Nov 27, 2023 13:15:40 GMT -8
While JB sees "Pallet View Navy" and John sees "Relief Valve Ass", I'm sure it reads "Relief Valve Assy". JB's is a dyslexic's perspective, but John's is 12 yo boy, which is something I can appreciate! I was playing a bit with JB, as I understand the dyslexic perspective. I try to be aware of this when I post here. I don’t post long texts, if possible, and try to make points as brief and distinct as possible. I think dyslexia is on a sliding scale, as I sometimes in the church’s choir find myself switching words in a song to a word my brain thinks is right for the situation. This is especially true when we are singing an old English song, as those songs use words we don’t have now in our vocabulary. Luckily, so far no one has picked up on my switch, and usually it happens only in practice. By the way, this is why I post a lot of photos when I post too. Sometimes a photo is really a great way of making a point. Duck has an Itch by John Ratliff, on Flickr John PS, it’s great to have a “12 yo boy” perspective, especially since next month I turn 78.
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Post by vance on Nov 27, 2023 16:29:33 GMT -8
I'm with you, John!
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Post by nikeajax on Nov 28, 2023 9:10:18 GMT -8
SCREEEEEEEEEEEEEECH! Now wait a minute; it took a while for something to sink in: 60-PSI? That's the lowest I've ever heard of an IP. Is this more of, "A diver isn't being efficient with their air unless they're working hard to breathe" mentality? Tilt-valves can be set to 115-PSI, much higher, and you get a noticeable lag in activation of the valve. Did I miss something?
Jaybird
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cg43
Senior Diver
Posts: 91
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Post by cg43 on Nov 28, 2023 12:36:46 GMT -8
Hello JB
Relax and go to CG45 , Pirreli Explorer
You will find that these guys dived down to 431 feet depth using an reg. that uses 43 PSI intermediate pressure . So what !
IP is only one design value . For example :
Upstream - downstream tilt valve - linear valve compensation yes - no IP high - IP low ; diameter (area) orifice diameter (area) main diaphragm way diaphragm moves leaver ratio venturi yes - no pilot valve yes -no
In reality there are a few values more .
Greetings Rainer
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cg43
Senior Diver
Posts: 91
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Post by cg43 on Nov 30, 2023 8:55:29 GMT -8
Hello Here is the calculation for the weigth compensated exhast valve . The nessesary values are : The distance center main diaphragm - center exhaust valve dThe area of the exhaust valve AvThe density of the weight and the density of the ambient water . If there is an arrow above an value , that value has a direction (vector in math.) The weight has downforce and buoyancy in water . That's the reason for the weird therm . Sorry the picture is so small . I have this problem with my computer many times . You can expand the picture . Greetings Rainer
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Post by Fibonacci on Dec 3, 2023 14:41:33 GMT -8
Morning Rainer I'm trying to follow your calculations but cannot read the low-res image properly. Could you please upload a larger image?
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cg43
Senior Diver
Posts: 91
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Post by cg43 on Dec 5, 2023 14:36:00 GMT -8
Hello Fibonacci Up to now , I have not found why flikr makes my photos so small . I will work on this . May be you have an idea ? On the side it's a littel bit bigger. I will add an explanation what I did next . Greetings Rainer
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Post by nikeajax on Dec 5, 2023 15:02:13 GMT -8
Hi Rainer, I looked at your image and it's 500 x 375 pixels: try saving your files as a larger size, like say 1000 x 750-pixels, or 200%
JB
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