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Post by luis on Jan 13, 2008 16:25:30 GMT -8
Very nice set up Nem, To respond to Luis,I have seen some Aquarius' with a heavy yoke and a screw in nozzle which I believe is the yoke I'm looking for which might be the same as the RAM and whose nozzle might be the same as a RAM nozzle!!!That would be nice since you could cannabalize these to transform DA's into RAMs.There is also a funny looking '70 1st stage USD single hose which looks like a triangular paper weight upside down(I do not know the model name) which might also fit the bill. I am presently obtaining these 1st stages for dismantling and experimentation. These can sometimes yield interchangeable parts such as HP diaphragms etc... Wow, I think I'm turning into Dr.Frankenstein!!! The double hose will never die I tell you...never die!!! AAAAHHHHH... Dottore Michele. I searched my USD repair manuals looking for Aquarius regulators and different regulators with yokes similar to the 1973 RAM. I worked in dive shops in the 70’s and the only USD Aquarius I recall is this one with the yoke as a one piece part of the first stage body. Here are diagrams and pictures of the only Aquarius that I am aware of from the 1970’s: The only Aquarius I found with detachable yoke are from 94 to 97. Here are some diagrams: Here is a 1997: I don’t know if they made an Aquarius in the 80’s. In any case, the diagrams are not mechanical drawings, but if they are somewhat to scale, it doesn’t look like the yoke would fit. The only regulator that I am aware of from the 70’s with a similar yoke is the Conshelf XII. Here are couple of diagrams of it: I happen to own a Conshelf XII. Below are some pictures with the RAM first stage nozzle on the left and the Conshelf XII yoke and yoke retainer on the right. This picture shows the large gap between the RAM nozzle and the Conshelf XII yoke inside diameter: The outside diameter of the RAM nozzle is about 0.87”. The inside diameter of the yoke is 0.98” (the yoke retainer OD is 0.94”). The larger ID on the yoke reduces the load bearing area. I haven’t done a structural analysis, but IMHO it is not a good match. Also the thickness of the ring on the yoke is about 0.35” (the same as most modern Aqua Lung heavy yokes) and the space below the hexagonal flange of the nozzle only allows 0.24”. The original RAM heavy yoke had a recessed area to accommodate the main body. My recommendation is still to start with a threaded yoke and have it machined. Dan had some Dacor heavy yokes machined to fit. They were not identical to the originals, but they looked very good. BTW, I am not aware of any single hose regulator that has used a nozzle/ first stage body similar to the RAM. The Conshelf, Titan and many others have used all the same internal parts, but the first stage body is one piece. They don’t have a nozzle that unscrews from the outer body. They have a yoke retainer nut (or a threaded nut in the case of the Conshelf XIV and many other Conshelf’s).
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Post by Michel on Jan 13, 2008 17:06:52 GMT -8
Thanks Luis,
Yes ,I have tried the conshelf x12 yoke and of course the sleeve used creates a larger diameter which would be dangerous to use. However the Aquarius/Ean that you show the diagram of has some promise just eyeballing it. Of course one would have to have one in the flesh to see if it would be a proper fit. I agree that probably the best other way would be to have a screw in conshelf yoke remachined to the exact measurements of the RAM long yoke diameter if all else fails. By the way,the HP diaphragm of the conshelf x12 has perfect interchangeabilty with the DA and Ram HP diaphragm if you have to replace one which is cracked or damaged. I'm going to keep trying...Michel A.
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JohnA
Pro Diver
Posts: 134
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Post by JohnA on Jan 14, 2008 6:03:22 GMT -8
Will do, I will take some shots of it this week and post them.
As to USD, I agree, just an updated RAM with LP/HP ports and new materials, the Mentor. My RAM will stay with me, I sold all my other double hose regs, the RAM was the one I really wanted and the others would have just sat in a closet, so I cleaned house.
John
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Post by Michel on Jan 14, 2008 7:02:41 GMT -8
Thanks John, Looking forward to those photos,I think it will help. You know I was thinking the same thing about cleaning house,I mean I started out wanting just a good late model RAM to dive with and now have 10 double hosers in perfect working order and have become a bit obsessed!Funny how collecting can become addictive. It may also be the thrill of the hunt,finding that 'Ferrari in a barn' feeling and ressurecting it to it's former glory!Crazy is'nt it? Cheers, Michel A.
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JohnA
Pro Diver
Posts: 134
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Post by JohnA on Jan 15, 2008 10:24:17 GMT -8
Michael Here are some shots of the yoke. John
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Post by scubadiverbob on Jan 15, 2008 14:07:17 GMT -8
Here is the original, heavy yoke RAM. Enjoy John John, PM me and I'll send you my address. Send the RAM to me so I can "enjoy" it. Someday, I might send it back. ;D Very nice looking regulator! Robert
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Post by Michel on Jan 15, 2008 17:09:14 GMT -8
Thank you John, These photos are very helpfull.Just eyeballing the yoke it would seem that it's shape and structure is very much the same as the conX12 but of course made to fit the screw-in nozzle.The only single hose reg USD 1st stage that looks correct may be the Aquarius which does not have the fixed yoke...just maybe.Other wise the modern conshelf but remachined to accomodate the the RAM nozzle diameter. I've noticed on your photo that there is a large gap(play) between the base of the yoke on your reg like with the long yoke,is this normal as the diagrams of the shop manual for the 1079-00 do not seem to show this?Just wondering. The analysis continues..... Michel A.
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JohnA
Pro Diver
Posts: 134
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Post by JohnA on Jan 16, 2008 5:58:59 GMT -8
Thank you John, These photos are very helpfull.Just eyeballing the yoke it would seem that it's shape and structure is very much the same as the conX12 but of course made to fit the screw-in nozzle.The only single hose reg USD 1st stage that looks correct may be the Aquarius which does not have the fixed yoke...just maybe.Other wise the modern conshelf but remachined to accomodate the the RAM nozzle diameter. I've noticed on your photo that there is a large gap(play) between the base of the yoke on your reg like with the long yoke,is this normal as the diagrams of the shop manual for the 1079-00 do not seem to show this?Just wondering. The analysis continues..... Michel A. Michel, There is an "excessive" amount of play on that yoke, more so then any USD double hose I ever owned (or single hose for that matter). My guess would be that it is set up like a long yoke??? John
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Post by luis on Jan 16, 2008 8:53:03 GMT -8
Thanks Luis, Yes ,I have tried the conshelf x12 yoke and of course the sleeve used creates a larger diameter which would be dangerous to use. However the Aquarius/Ean that you show the diagram of has some promise just eyeballing it. Of course one would have to have one in the flesh to see if it would be a proper fit. I agree that probably the best other way would be to have a screw in conshelf yoke remachined to the exact measurements of the RAM long yoke diameter if all else fails. By the way,the HP diaphragm of the conshelf x12 has perfect interchangeabilty with the DA and Ram HP diaphragm if you have to replace one which is cracked or damaged. I'm going to keep trying...Michel A. I am fairly certain that the ID on the base of the yoke for the 1997 Aquarius (and 1994 to 97 Aquarius and Calypso) is the same as all the other Aqua Lung yokes with this style yoke retainer. The ID of the Conshelf XII yoke as I mentioned is 0.98”, the same as in the latest Titan yoke I have. The reason I am certain all the Aqua Lung regulators with this style yoke and retainer would have the same ID is because they all start with the same yoke valve interface dimensions. The OD of the yoke O-ring regulator interface is about 0.70”. Then the threaded section on all Aqua Lung regulators (including all Conshelf, Titan, and all present production regulators with this style yoke retainer) has threads that are 13/16”-20 UNEF. Since the OD of the threads is about 0.78” it only makes sense for the ID of the yoke not to be any less than 0.98” on any regulator using a yoke retainer as shown in the diagram. The wall thickness of the yoke retainer would just be too thin for a heavy yoke if you made the yoke ID any smaller. As far as I am aware, the yoke and yoke retainer on all of these Aqua Lung regulators are basically interchangeable. The reason the RAM has a smaller ID yoke is because there is no separate yoke retainer. If you look at this page (part way down): www.vintagescubasupply.com/access.htmlYou will see that Dan has a very similar yoke from Dacor already machined to fit a RAM. If you want it to look even closer, you could probably switched the screw with an Aqua Lung screw. I am fairly certain it is the standard 5/8-18 UNF thread yoke screw like Aqua Lung. DAN yoke only cost $75 and it is already machined, ready to go. Thanks, but yes I know that the Conshelf, Titan (and as far as I know all other Aqua Lung diaphragm first stages) use basically the same diaphragm as the RAM. After all, they all started with the same RAM first stage design. Through the years Aqua Lung has tried different material and diaphragm thickness, but they are all functionally (and fit) the same. If you need HP diaphragms you can also get them from this site: www.vintagedoublehose.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=6_3Here are service kits for RAM: www.vintagedoublehose.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=6_3&products_id=6It includes a new reproduction diaphragm, all the gaskets, LP seat etc. You can also get there new reproduction silicon ambient pressure diaphragms. That will improve the breathing performance of any RAM or DA by a substantial amount. I have consistently measured about ½ inWC or more inhalation resistance reduction with the silicon diaphragm.
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Post by treasureman on Jan 19, 2008 19:04:55 GMT -8
Hey Michel... I am the John In Ottawa you were looking for. you can pm me off line if you want
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Post by Michel on Jan 21, 2008 7:20:16 GMT -8
Hey John, How are you? Were you John I met at the dive store a year or so ago(adventures in diving-Robin) and who runs the martial arts club? If you are I'll try giving you a call later this week,perhaps we can compare notes on our restorations or maybe swap parts or do business.I can be reached through Robin or PM me anytime.
Michel A. Ottawa.
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Post by luis on Jan 22, 2008 7:16:20 GMT -8
The yoke in the Cousteau / Sea regulator may fit the RAM. It may be a bit thick, but that should fairly easy to modify. An Aqua Lung dealer may be able to order you one of this yokes. The regulator came with two different style yoke (see diagrams below) so you may need to specify part number 1073-11 (and not 1068-42). Both of this yokes are interchangeable since they interface with the same part (Inlet Fitting, part number 1063-39). There are no guaranties that the ID is the same as in the RAM, since we are talking about regulators that were built a few decades apart, but based on the geometry and that they both start with the same valve interface dimensions, it is a bit more promising. Good luck
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