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Post by Michel on Jan 9, 2008 11:13:18 GMT -8
Hi all,
Has anybody figured out approx. how many very late model Rams were
made with the heavy yoke and if this last model is in fact in small supply out there?
I have been looking for years for one but seem only to be able to find the pre heavy yoke one!They also have not been coming up lately on 'ebait' either. Were they a very small run at the very end of US divers offerings in the 1970's?
Also,does anyone know for sure if the yoke in question was interchangeable with a circa 1970's first stage one hose from USD?If anyone knows I'd appreciate the info so I could fit my round label RAM or for that matter any round label AM with the correct heavy yoke.By the way,does anyone know the psi rating inscribed on the yoke of model 1079-00? Thanks, Michel A.
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Post by scubadiverbob on Jan 9, 2008 13:52:55 GMT -8
PSI was 3500; I'm sure of that. I have a copy of the service manual for the HP RAM. If you want I could mail you a copy of it. Just PM me. It'll be the end of the month until I get paid and will have money to do that.
I don't claim to be an expert on this; so, someone might correct me. The high pressure RAM used the same HP seat (teflon) as the Conshelf 6 and the yoke was a HP yoke. I think that was the only difference in the regulators. I'm uncertain if it used the same springs in the nozzle. I think there is a Dacor yoke that will fit on an older style RAM
Someone enlighten me.
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Post by Broxton Coalition on Jan 9, 2008 19:19:18 GMT -8
michel, i too have wondered how many of the heavy yoke royals were made. after watching ebay for a number of years i would say there is a large ratio difference between the number of thin yokes vs. heavy yokes sold on ebay.
maybe we could do a serial number survey on this as dan has done in the past on other regulators.
another idea is to email rocky at the historical diving society. he has alot of us divers information.
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JohnA
Pro Diver
Posts: 134
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Post by JohnA on Jan 10, 2008 6:10:26 GMT -8
I took me about 3 years of hard target seaching to find a heavy yoke on e-bay. Only reason I think I got it was the photos made it look like it was a standard yoke, seller did not grasp what he had.
John
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Post by Michel on Jan 10, 2008 13:08:47 GMT -8
You know John,
I think I may have bid on that one and lost, was it a canadian listing?And was the label soso? I think the giveaway might have been the very high serial # in the 746.... range if it's the same one we bid on. The reason I did not want to go high on the bid was that I thought it might just be a long yoke version..oh well good for you!
Do you have a spare you would like to sell or trade for something I might have that you want? Let me know. And have you ever compared the yoke to the heavy yokes on the single hoses of that era? If your 'John' who lives in Ottawa I'd really like to have a look at it to see if I can find an interchangeable yoke.
Thanks for the info and the input, anyone else out there with ideas?
Michel A.
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Post by nemrod on Jan 10, 2008 18:56:16 GMT -8
I have a factory heavy yoke RAM, I believe it was manufactured in 1974. The person I got it from had kept it NEW in his sock drawer (so he claims) for all those years. I am not sure I understand the question at hand? Essentially the yoke is the same as is being provided today with the Phoenix conversions in style but it is not threaded. All my regs are sleeping soundly deep in their tubs for the winter, if I need too I can dig it out.
Nemrod
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JohnA
Pro Diver
Posts: 134
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Post by JohnA on Jan 11, 2008 5:53:47 GMT -8
You know John, I think I may have bid on that one and lost, was it a canadian listing?And was the label soso? I think the giveaway might have been the very high serial # in the 746.... range if it's the same one we bid on. The reason I did not want to go high on the bid was that I thought it might just be a long yoke version..oh well good for you! Do you have a spare you would like to sell or trade for something I might have that you want? Let me know. And have you ever compared the yoke to the heavy yokes on the single hoses of that era? If your 'John' who lives in Ottawa I'd really like to have a look at it to see if I can find an interchangeable yoke. Thanks for the info and the input, anyone else out there with ideas? Michel A. No, not me, mine looked right out of the box new, this was about 3 years ago, right before every round lable RAM price went crazy. Not many people even bid on it. John |
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Post by luis on Jan 11, 2008 7:13:40 GMT -8
The only functional difference with the 1973 RAM that I am aware of is the yoke. The Conshelf and many of the successors Aqua Lung (US Divers) regulators, like the Titan, used all the same first stage parts as the Royal Aqua Master. Since they are balanced first stages, to change the pressure rating there is no need to change seat material. The seat material in all these regulators did change as better performing materials were introduced. The first stage springs seem to be the same in today’s Titan as in a 1966 Royal Aqua Master. The spring block (balancing chamber) has changed a lot in its looks, but its fit and function is the same. I did a calculation on that style heavy yoke and personally I would have no problem using that yoke up to 5000 psi. Take a look at the bottom of this thread: www.scubaboard.com/forums/regulators/214570-using-232-bar-yoke-hp-130-steel-tank.htmlThe standard long yoke is more than adequate to 3000psi and probably 3500 psi without a problem (I can do some calculations if someone really wants to find out). Unless there is a defect on a yoke the normal failure mode would a blown O-ring due slight elastic stretch of the yoke. But, the yoke should not incur any permanent deformation or damage due to slightly higher pressures. In the early 70’s I worked in a dive shop in Puerto Rico were we had a new Royal in the box (I think it had the large yoke). It sat in the display for a couple of years before it was sold. From 1971 on I think we might have sold two RAM total, including that last 1973 heavy yoke unit. I don’t think they made many RAM’s on that last year of production. |
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Post by Michel on Jan 11, 2008 8:59:51 GMT -8
Nem,
What I'm trying to determine is this: in 1973 or thereabout there were also heavy yoke USD single hose 1st stages so were these yokes interchangeable (would they fit) the 2 hose RAM?In other words could you replace the long yoke with the heavy yoke from one of these single hose 1stages? The reason I ask is that I have late long yoke RAM's but not with the heavy yoke and since the yoke is the only and last difference for the last production RAMs I'd rather find the yoke that fits off a cheap and plentyfull 1st stage single USD than pay for a heavy yoke RAM @$600.00 plus with condition unknown on "ebait"! The conshelfs at one point went to a screw on sleeve and then a screw on yoke which do not fit. But I'm sure that USD did not make a specific heavy yoke for the last RAMs knowing that they could save money with interchangeability. Michel A.
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Post by luis on Jan 11, 2008 10:07:11 GMT -8
Nem, What I'm trying to determine is this: in 1973 or thereabout there were also heavy yoke USD single hose 1st stages so were these yokes interchangeable (would they fit) the 2 hose RAM?In other words could you replace the long yoke with the heavy yoke from one of these single hose 1stages? The reason I ask is that I have late long yoke RAM's but not with the heavy yoke and since the yoke is the only and last difference for the last production RAMs I'd rather find the yoke that fits off a cheap and plentyfull 1st stage single USD than pay for a heavy yoke RAM @$600.00 plus with condition unknown on "ebait"! The conshelfs at one point went to a screw on sleeve and then a screw on yoke which do not fit. But I'm sure that USD did not make a specific heavy yoke for the last RAMs knowing that they could save money with interchangeability. Michel A. If I recall correctly in 1973 US Divers had three single hose regulators in its inventory, the Conshelf, the Calypso (and Calypso J), and the Aquarius. The Calypso and the Aquarius both had the yoke as part of the main body. The yokes were not replaceable. That leaves only the Conshelf. As you know most Conshelf had the yoke threaded to screw directly to the body. I do own a Conshelf that had a yoke retainer nut instead of the threaded yoke, but those were rare. Also if I recall correctly the ID in that yoke is a bit larger than needed for the RAM. I can check it later. The assumption that US Divers would not have made a unique yoke just for the RAM is probably correct. They probably used the same Conshelf yoke. The threading in the Conshelf yoke is an extra machining operation, therefore, for the RAM it was just a cutting the proper inside diameter on the yoke…very simple. You may be able to have a threaded yoke machined to fit the RAM, but I would have to look at it a bit closer. The thread size is smaller than the diameter needed to match the RAM nozzle. Converting a threaded Conshelf yoke to fit a RAM should be simple and I think others may have done it or tried it. The possible disadvantage of the heavy yoke versus the long yoke is that you may not be able to use a banjo with some valves. I am not sure about this, but I think some others have mentioned it. |
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Post by nemrod on Jan 11, 2008 11:25:25 GMT -8
I believe the explanation Luis gives is most likely the case. The Conshelf and RAM used the same heavy yoke. In the case of the Conshelf the yoke blank was threaded and in the case of the RAM it was machined to clear the nozzle body diameter. The heavy yoke does make it challenging to insert the standard banjo adapter. With some thicker modern valves it might be impossible but most it should squeak in there. This is a picture of my other heavy yoke Aqua Master, my infamous hybrid DA I once so foolishly wanted to part with. It has a late model RAM nozzle and original heavy yoke. Note that the banjo is installed with a modern Thermo brand valve.  Note also that you can see the serial number on the can back side, that means this was originally a heavy yoke round label DA that had been masquerading as an early 60s square label DA now converted to a RAM configuration, hey, I am not fully responsible for the blasphemy. Who knows where the original top can went off to! Nem |
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Post by Michel on Jan 11, 2008 13:19:53 GMT -8
Very nice set up Nem,
To respond to Luis,I have seen some Aquarius' with a heavy yoke and a screw in nozzle which I believe is the yoke I'm looking for which might be the same as the RAM and whose nozzle might be the same as a RAM nozzle!!!That would be nice since you could cannabalize these to transform DA's into RAMs.There is also a funny looking '70 1st stage USD single hose which looks like a triangular paper weight upside down(I do not know the model name) which might also fit the bill. I am presently obtaining these 1st stages for dismantling and experimentation. These can sometimes yield interchangeable parts such as HP diaphragms etc... Wow, I think I'm turning into Dr.Frankenstein!!! The double hose will never die I tell you...never die!!! AAAAHHHHH...
Dottore Michele.
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JohnA
Pro Diver
Posts: 134
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Post by JohnA on Jan 12, 2008 11:52:34 GMT -8
Here is the original, heavy yoke RAM. Enjoy John  |
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Post by duckbill on Jan 12, 2008 22:27:53 GMT -8
Showoff!!!
Well, I have to say it is very nice, indeed. Also, nice knife and photo site. I would never have thought of using the playset for a backgound. Very inventive ;-)
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Post by Michel on Jan 13, 2008 14:48:30 GMT -8
Very nice John,very nice!!
Hang on to that one, it's the last of the truly great regs from USD.
It's a shame that company did'nt just re-issue it with a couple of HP and LP ports and a few internal upgrades instead of the flop with the new Mistral! Or better still make the Mentor available on special order for those who wanted it.
By the way John could you post a few more photos of your reg showing detail of the yoke assembly(maybe closeups etc..) for those of us still trying to find one or retrofit the proper heavy yoke?
Thanks ahead of time,
Michel A.
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