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Feb 14, 2008 15:29:51 GMT -8
Post by Nemo on Feb 14, 2008 15:29:51 GMT -8
I'd like to see AL put out a tablet that you drop into a bucket of water, and it turns into a 22 year old Hooters waitress with her own dive boat and a hankerin' for old married dudes...but that aint gonna happen, either.
;D
P.S. Hi Dave. Just sent you a reply this morning on that other subject. Have fun in Chi town.
Pat
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Feb 14, 2008 18:00:36 GMT -8
Post by Michel on Feb 14, 2008 18:00:36 GMT -8
Hummmmm......Mr. Haas.
I detect a devil's advocate in our midst. On the surface and with business experience in our cruel world we sometimes come to that conclusion:that it's always about the money, but is it? Think about the following: -USD already spent the money on the mentor and is used for intro to rebreather training in the USN -jet figther pilots start their training flying single engine prop aircraft,have we stopped building single engine aeroplanes? - Ferrari,Porsche and Mercedes support classic car restorations in their own factories -underwater photogs still complain of bubbles in their face,a double hose is far cheaper than a complicated rebreather -microwave ovens are fast but the great chefs still use bake ovens -digital watches are more accurate but you'd rather have a mechanical Rolex -when the electrics of modern aircraft fail your glad you can still stick and rudder -the finest audio systems are bespoke and use 'tubes' -a twist cap works but I prefer cork in the Mouton Rothschild bottle -when someone burns a flag it's not about the cost of replacing the fabric it's about the passion,the tradition and the continuity of an ideal..... it's the foundation of what made it possible... just think about it, that's why USD made the Mentor and played with the not so great new Mistral,because they still have the seed inside,even as we speak,someone,many most likely know it. Repent and sin no more.... Michel A.
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dhaas
Regular Diver
Posts: 26
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Feb 14, 2008 18:30:28 GMT -8
Post by dhaas on Feb 14, 2008 18:30:28 GMT -8
michel, Real quick as us old people need our beauty sleep! If you read my post I didn't say I don't enjoy, revel in cool old gear or long for simpler diving days. I just chuckle when people think "old" stuff will make a comeback. The Mentor? Who cares! You nor I can buy one. Aqualung won't make them for the PUBLIC. So the military uses it. Again, what does this mean to me as an active diver? Nada........ All the other examples may have a small group of people who eschew modern products. "Better" is s purely subjective term, too. I guarantee 99 / 100 people couldn't hear any difference in a blind test of sound systems. But 99/100 people would certainly tell you they "think" ANY double hose regulator due to the placement of the can and simple physics "doesn't breath as easily" as even the simplest of single hose regulators. By the by, the military example.....I haven't seen photos of any double hose cans backing up Navy diver's bailout bottles when diving with Superlights for real salvage or other underwater work. I DO see the same time proven Conshelf XIV first stage on their tanks, though. So much is the same argument of film versus digital. Film is dead, dead, dead.......For 99.9999% of ANY use. Any magazine you pick up is 100% digital. I don't mean to be a devil's advocate as I've tried to insinuate in my posts I think playing with this stuff is fun. But it won't ever become mainstream in any form..... Just one old diver's opinion ZZZZZZ............... dhaas
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Feb 14, 2008 20:09:42 GMT -8
Post by nemrod on Feb 14, 2008 20:09:42 GMT -8
"But I don't expect a resort with huge liability concerns, or PADI (90% of new divers) to let me "do it my way". Any more than car manufacturers will produce a car without seat belts, or air bags....." Well, see, PadI really does not control everything, it only controls those who allow it like the Outer Limits or whatever show it was where they return control now of your TV set. I don't care about PadI's opinion. I live on the Outer Limits of reality. The reason AL might well sooner or later make a retro dive set is because they alone can, they alone have the history, they alone can afford it just as when an auto company builds a car for a small market just for the attention it brings. The difference is that the diving public is so dumbed down by PadI that they would not know what to pay attention to without taking specialty course in what they should pay attention to. There is a misconception, I personally don't care if I were the only one on the planet diving double hose, I am not trying to convert anybody. As you, dhaas, have stated before, the industry is shrinking--good--works for me. Mainstream, who cares, I don't like mainstream, mainstream is exceedingly boring, lemmings following each other in lock step--good--I hope it (vintage) never becomes mainstream. In fact I am not a vintage diver, I am a minimalsit diver and the vintage equipment largely suits that better than the latest super duper plastic fantastic, here today, gone tomorrow, miracle gizmo. As to nice places, trust me, my wife and I have been to many nice places and have yet to be taken into the PadI Borg, we did not start diving yesterday. Another of your misconceptions is that we vintage divers are against color, nope, I like color, but somehowI don't think I missed anything by not getting a merit badge in gear coordination where I could get some preaching about how normal people cannot adjust their own dive equipment. Modern gear is all black, vintage gear came in wonderful living color. Speaking of nice trips, my wife and I did this in 1980, a sort of late honeymoon. The first thing we bought when married was a vacum cleaner, second was a bed and third was our first airplane. This trip we blasted off on a fly and dive tour of Florida going all the way to Key West and then hopping over to Bimini and nearby environs. We did not have any BC or any thing much, no room for it, we rented tanks and belts and bought new cloths where ever we stopped and threw the dirty ones away. We were totally waterlogged and burned out by the time we coasted back into Houston several weeks later. Cozumel and Miami used to be our weekend, jump on Southwest at Hobby and away we went, every darn weekend, we have been to plenty of nice places and in some cases, I flew us there or sailed us there--myself--I don't need PadI to approve. Mimalism is a growing trend, vintage is part of it maybe without realizing it. Even GUE and Hogartianism are a response to seeking a balance. I don't think mass numbers will convert to vintage but I do think there is a growing trend away from consumerist diving. Here is what scuba has become and WE, except for dhass, are the line in the sand: www.youtube.com/watch?v=hE2SQ2sDQ_s&NR=1And, dhaas, when you put that breathy thingy in your mouth and it goes----scrrrrrrreeeeeeeee, bbllllllllllmmmmppppppphhhhhh, like the lady said, just think how nice a truely modern and yet retro double hose would be, quiet, smooth, no bubbles flailing at your ears, no pulling your teeth out by the roots, no smell of plastic, quiet and so much more Pro. Yeah count me in AL, I will take one, the diva and dhaas can continue with their breathing thingy. Just stirring the the pot. Nice places, yeah, but you have to be there with the diving divas. Nem
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wd8cdh
Regular Diver
Posts: 35
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Feb 15, 2008 5:35:20 GMT -8
Post by wd8cdh on Feb 15, 2008 5:35:20 GMT -8
I would go with a body that was functionally interchangable with a RAM but not with the first stage nozzle screwing into the body. I would have the first stage and yoke configuration identical to the Conshelf but with a shorter seat to first stage diaphram distance. The second stage parts would be similar and probably interchangable with the DA/RAM but made from SS. I would have several boxes available, RAM style, Mentor style and plastic/dayglo. Standard DA/RAM size hoses, valves and mouthpieces in silicone in every possible color including black and gray. All of the moving parts would be interchangable with the RAM or Conshelf or Titan. Even a retro metal yoke knob would be an option as would be a DIN conversion.
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Feb 15, 2008 8:13:31 GMT -8
Post by Broxton Carol on Feb 15, 2008 8:13:31 GMT -8
Michel thank you for the nomination, but they over at u.s. divers wouldnt want me around. Im VINTAGE. Nothing more, nothing less. They sell new gear, aimed at a modern market. This thread has had many different angles alluding to improvements on older gear, or making available modern gear of vintage type. That is futile. Lets say you could build a copy of an original 2 hoser, with all the geegaws, who really would want it? Few Im sure. Most people want the most innavative, and accepted modern gear to use. Thats business. The thing is you can go whatever way you want. If you are not vintage, you can dive with the modern 2 hose regs or rigged up stuff on your 2 hoser, and those who like to dive VINTAGE can enjoy VINTAGE diving the way it came to be years ago. Happy trails..........
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Feb 15, 2008 9:05:52 GMT -8
Post by nemrod on Feb 15, 2008 9:05:52 GMT -8
Us "twin hosers" are all that remains of sanity, we stand the line in the sand between chaos and freedom, we twin hose frogmen have a date with destiny, we are there for the few who can be saved. Maybe, just maybe, our faith will be rewarded. Don't listen to the naysayers, there is hope, there is always that. Nemrod
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Feb 15, 2008 9:16:10 GMT -8
Post by luis on Feb 15, 2008 9:16:10 GMT -8
Us "twin hosers" are all that remains of sanity, we stand the line in the sand between chaos and freedom, we twin hose frogmen have a date with destiny, we are there for the few who can be saved. Maybe, just maybe, our faith will be rewarded. Don't listen to the naysayers, there is hope, there is always that. Nemrod Is that from a movie? While I was reading I could hear John Wayne's voice.
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Feb 15, 2008 10:17:18 GMT -8
Post by Broxton Carol on Feb 15, 2008 10:17:18 GMT -8
Nem, You got it right. The last evidence of sanity. I have to laugh the way folks eyeball me when out diving with my old gear on. Frankly I dont care, I have to chuckle when I see them doing the same thing, the hard way!
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Feb 15, 2008 11:34:24 GMT -8
Post by SeaRat on Feb 15, 2008 11:34:24 GMT -8
Us "twin hosers" are all that remains of sanity, we stand the line in the sand between chaos and freedom, we twin hose frogmen have a date with destiny, we are there for the few who can be saved. Maybe, just maybe, our faith will be rewarded. Don't listen to the naysayers, there is hope, there is always that. Nemrod Maybe that's why, when I walk down a hallway that has a high ceiling and think about swimming it with my rig on, I "feel" the bubbles coming out between my shoulder blades. I would go with a body that was functionally interchangable with a RAM but not with the first stage nozzle screwing into the body. I would have the first stage and yoke configuration identical to the Conshelf but with a shorter seat to first stage diaphram distance. The second stage parts would be similar and probably interchangable with the DA/RAM but made from SS. I would have several boxes available, RAM style, Mentor style and plastic/dayglo. Standard DA/RAM size hoses, valves and mouthpieces in silicone in every possible color including black and gray. All of the moving parts would be interchangable with the RAM or Conshelf or Titan. Even a retro metal yoke knob would be an option as would be a DIN conversion. This has been tried several times, not only with the New Mistral. Check out the Sportsways Duel Air and Hydro Twin, and the AMF Voit Trieste II. These took existing first stages and mated a top and bottom box to them to make a double hose regulator. It would be relatively easy to do again too, using any of the first stages you suggest. All there needs to be is a reason to do it, and perhaps we, by continuing to dive these "older" regulators, can provide that reason. At some point, someone in the PADI/modern diver realm will have to look and say, "I wonder what it's like to have bubbles come out between your shoulder blades?" John
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Feb 15, 2008 11:45:57 GMT -8
Post by Broxton Carol on Feb 15, 2008 11:45:57 GMT -8
John, they already know what its like to have bubbles come up between their legs.................... Having bubbles come up between the shoulder blades is no biggie! Especially with their masks on backwards!
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Feb 15, 2008 12:43:00 GMT -8
Post by Linda on Feb 15, 2008 12:43:00 GMT -8
The first thing we bought when married was a vacum cleaner, second was a bed.... Nem Now I'm not criticizing your judgment, but if *I* got married, I would have reversed those two, priority-wise...
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Feb 15, 2008 13:14:48 GMT -8
Post by Voice of Gomez on Feb 15, 2008 13:14:48 GMT -8
Linda thats the best point made on this entire thread!
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Feb 15, 2008 15:47:50 GMT -8
Post by JES on Feb 15, 2008 15:47:50 GMT -8
The first thing we bought when married was a vacum cleaner, second was a bed.... Nem Now I'm not criticizing your judgment, but if *I* got married, I would have reversed those two, priority-wise... Now that's funny....
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Feb 15, 2008 17:42:11 GMT -8
Post by nemrod on Feb 15, 2008 17:42:11 GMT -8
Hey, we had nothing, no place to live and when we finally found an apartment it was full of dirt, the vacum was sorta needed. They had hired so many geologist there was no place to live, it was a horrible summer until we got to Houston where we could get a real, CLEAN, place, no dirt floors or cow skull ceiling lamp, we were in heaven. Nem
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