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Post by nikeajax on Jan 31, 2013 16:59:40 GMT -8
Copy that, and thanks!
Jaybird
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Post by nikeajax on Jan 31, 2013 17:35:51 GMT -8
Yeah, that does seem to be helping to soften the old potato-chip!
How many dives between cleaning do-ya think is good for the Scuba Star? I really like making these old things work again, it feels good proving the "Chicken Littles" wrong, "Gosh, those are deadly to use..."
Jaybird
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Post by SeaRat on Feb 3, 2013 16:31:16 GMT -8
I finally got into the pool with my old Canon F-1N in an Ikelite housing and an Ikelite strobe, my twin 45s with a Sherwood 2-post manifold, and my Healthways regulators. I was able to use six regulators in about 45 minutes of diving. There were two other divers in the pool, and the kayakers above practicing their rolls for subjects. My camera/housing/strobe system worked flawlessly! It is now ready for the 2013 diving season when the rivers get down (about May).
My first regulator combination was the Healthways SCUBA Deluxe hybrid, with the newer Healthways mouthpiece and nice, flexible hoses. It worked well, but the inhalation and exhalation were not quite where I wanted them. The single hose regulator was the Scubair 300, with the later second stage; it worked very well, but the bubbles were in my visual field quite noticably. I concentrated on the kayakers during this portion of the dive for photos.
I surfaced, climbed up the ladder to the bench where my bag was lying, and switched regulators. This time I had the original Healthways SCUBA regulator, with shorter USD hoses (from my Overpressure Breathing regulator) and my Scubair regulator. The SCUBA preformed very well, and actual had better exhalation resistance due to the Hope-Page mouthpiece. I was testing this with a rather unique "duckbill," which was a finger off a nitril glove, and it worked! All this duckbill does is back up the diaphragm exhaust system, which is unique to this regulator. I tested it in the head-down position, and water did not come into the hose. The Scubair performed well, but the exhalation was slightly harder. The exhalations did not inhibit my vision at all, with the metal exhaust horns routing air well back behind my mask (a Farallon tri-view).
This time, I got photos of the couple who were scuba diving and testing out their gear. They had modern gear, and one of the octopus/inflator hoses had a air leak. Her decompresion meter was beeping, and later I found out that the regulator had detected the leak and was sounding a warning beep.
My third combination was the Healthways Gold Label with a new diaphragm, USD hoses, and the Scuba Star tilt valve. The Gold Label was the best-performing regulator of the three double hose regs, and the mushroom valve exhalation did not seem to inhabit exhalations at all. The Scuba Star regulator, with its tilt valve, actually did not breath badly. It wasn't as good as either of the other two, but not bad either. Again, because of the metal exhaust tubes, exhalations were out of my visual field.
I was getting low on air, so I put on the original combination (SCUBA hybrid--meaning a Scuba Gold Label innards with the original Healthways SCUBA boxes), but with the Scubair 300 single hose. I wanted to hear the Scubair 300 on reserve, and the other two divers both indicated that they could hear it too. So the Scubair 300 sonic reserve does really work pretty well. I was hearing it, then pulled my 500 psig reserve on the twins and it went away for a little bit. So it actually comes into play a bit higher than 30 psig.
I rounded up my gear after taking a few more photos of swimmers (in the shallow area, where I had to sit under the line to get the photo), and exited.
Finally I was able to wet my "gills" and enjoy my regulators in the pool. My "conditioning" of the old Healthways second stage diaphragms paid off, as those regulators actually performed pretty well. Not as well as the silicone diaphragm in the Scubair 300, but still pretty well, especially for 40+ year-old diaphragms.
John
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Post by nikeajax on Feb 4, 2013 12:45:13 GMT -8
John, I was comparing the Hope-Page to the Voit mouth-piece: there's maybe a 1/8" difference in the size of the wagon-wheel opening, and the size of the hose up until the last-inch is EXACTLY the same! I always hear people saying the Healthways breathe better with USD hoses and mouth piece, but I'm wondering if they'd say that with a Hope-Page mouth piece? I'm sure you've tried it, is there really that big a difference? Yes, maybe that 1/8 make ALL the difference, but I'm just not seeing it, especially since the HP has virtually the same size, um, for my lack of a better word, air-chamber. Jaybird
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Post by SeaRat on Feb 5, 2013 13:32:35 GMT -8
Jaybird, Very perceptive post; the Hope-Page mouthpiece actually pre-dates the Healthways regulators. It was advertised in the original book "Dive, the complete book of scuba diving" as an auxiliary mouthpiece that U.S. Divers owners could use to replace the metal mouthpieces on the DA Aqualung regulator. It was one of the first mouthpieces to incorporate non-return valves, and was available on the Div-Air regulator (prior to Healthways). Healthways used it on their first double hose, the original Healthways SCUBA regulator. It featured a molded space which was asymetric, and actually channeled air to the mouthpiece because the exhalation area was slightly smaller in diameter than the inhalation area. After Healthways came out with the SCUBA which included the Hope-Page mouthpiece, which was an expensive mouthpiece to manufacture, U.S. Divers Company came out with the molded rubber "Kleer-EZ" mouthpiece system. This was the "T" mouthpiece that they are now famous for. But when Healthways upgraded their double hose regulator to the second generation Healthways SCUBA Delux, they put together their own version of a molded mouthpiece, and kept it for the third generation Gold Label SCUBA too (with an additional baffle plate). But this mouthpiece was considerably smaller than the Hope-Page mouthpiece. Here's a photo which contrasts the two: I have extensively tested the second/third generation mouthpieces, and they are only up to the USD equivalent when you completely remove the wagon wheel non-return valves from their nylon housing and provide a smooth surface for air flow. But this causes other complications inside the case. In the original SCUBA, with the diaphragm exhaust inside the intake housing, this results in the housing becoming pressurized and pressing the diaphragm against the exhalation tube, effectively blocking exhalation. In the second generation Healthways SCUBA Delux, it presses the diaphragm against the non-return mushroom valve in the exhalation case, again effectively blocking exhalation. I had a dive several years ago where I had a terrible time with exhalation until I figured this out; I had to abort the dive and switch regulators. I fixed it with the addition of a cemented-on nut inside the case which kept the diaphragm from blocking the exhalation valve. The Gold Label SCUBA has a tab on the inside of the exhalation case which provides this same separation for the original diaphragms. But I found out the hard way (again) that with the new silicone diaphragms, this can still happen as the rivet is domed and blocks one side of the mushroom, while the diaphragm blocks the other side. I solved this by taking a hammar to the domed head of the rivet, but it was surprising. This, by the way, is the reason that there were two inflexible discs on the original Healthways SCUBA Gold Label regulators (and actually the other two too); the disc on top, which seems non-functional, maintains the separation from the mushroom exhaust valve that the tab provides. This can also be negated by having a non-return valve in the inhalation side of the mouthpiece, but then you have higher inhalation resistance. I think this was way the air injector for the Gold Label SCUBA has a smaller opening than the USD equivalent--they wanted to provide higher velocity in the intake hose to overcome that non-return and smaller opening to the mouthpiece. They also provided the baffle plate in the mouthpiece because of this higher velocity, I think. I have an idea that they were trying also to overcome USD patents on the mouthpiece system. This photo shows the smaller opening that I "cleaned out" by removing the wagon wheel and the non-return valve, and shows the baffle plate too. All this points to the fact that the Hope-Page mouthpiece was a superior mouthpiece system for either the USD or Healthways regulators. When I put it onto my DA Aqualung regulator, the exhalation resistances very nice (but on that regulator the inhalation resistance was 2-4 inches of water pressure). The Hope-Page was noticably better last Sunday on the original Healthways SCUBA regulator than on my hybrid Healthways SCUBA (with Gold Label innards, but with the original mouthpiece). Here is the DA Aqualung with the Hope-Page mouthpiece mounted onto it, which was available when that regulator was new. Before our second dive in Big Cliff Reservoir, Sid Macken snapped this photo of me wearing my PJ tanks with the DA Aqualung regulator and the Hope-Page mouthpiece system. It provided a good dive, but the hoses were a bit short. This is a very quiet regulator compared to most other double hose, and all other single hose regulators. John
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Post by nikeajax on Feb 5, 2013 15:23:25 GMT -8
Again, thanks for convincing me that I needed that HP-mouth-piece! Those USD-Voit hoses/mouthpieces are EXTREMELY deceptive! I was thinking about my side-by-side shotgun, with a "full-choke", yesterday looking at that Voit stuff; in that yeah, they look really impressive, but once you get in there, that passageway is really choked-down. Keeping all that rubber, or silicone rigid needs something hard in there. I had assumed that the air-horns on those cans were bigger too from all he trash-talkin' people do about everything not USD-Voit. BTW, that third generation Scubair-300 is actually a fourth gen. I got one with the two-piece ring, from 1970, and for a bout three days (joke there) they made their diaphragms smaller! It's the same size as the Calypso's, but doesn't fit because the lip on the USD is too thick they changed the exhaust-tee to be smaller, squared off, but STILL used the same tiny valve size--SIGH! I'll get some pix up soon... Jaybird
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Post by nikeajax on Feb 8, 2013 14:14:41 GMT -8
Okay, as promised, here are the actual second and third generation Scubair-300: Note the smaller diaphragm and way it's held in place, more like the USD: the exhaust valve is still small by this late date of 1970! Oh, and at the bottom is their silicone diaphragm from the mid-1970's. Jaybird
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Post by nikeajax on Feb 8, 2013 15:48:33 GMT -8
Okay, anyone out there with a Healthways non-silicone diaphragm: John's trick really does work! WOW, I can't believe what a difference it made! Those things are tough as nails, super strong, and you gotta REALLY work-em: pinch, crush, roll, twist, you name it, they'll take it too--they seem to thrive on punishment. After beating mine to a pulp, I put it in and it just kinda collapsed like a piece of wet tissue, held up by the lever--YAHOO! Oh, that third generation Scubair has a rubber diaphragm. Jaybird
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Post by SeaRat on Feb 8, 2013 18:00:21 GMT -8
Okay, anyone out there with a Healthways non-silicone diaphragm: John's trick really does work! WOW, I can't believe what a difference it made! Those things are tough as nails, super strong, and you gotta REALLY work-em: pinch, crush, roll, twist, you name it, they'll take it too--they seem to thrive on punishment. After beating mine to a pulp, I put it in and it just kinda collapsed like a piece of wet tissue, held up by the lever--YAHOO! Oh, that third generation Scubair has a rubber diaphragm. Jaybird (emphasis added--jcr) Yes, it does help a lot. But be sure that they have been treated with silicone grease before doing the workout on these diaphragms. John
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Post by nikeajax on Feb 23, 2013 10:36:38 GMT -8
So, what do we know about "Divair" regs? I seem to recall that they weren't originally Healthways, they took them over, I guess?
Jaybird
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Post by nikeajax on Apr 15, 2013 7:47:40 GMT -8
John, I was re-reading what you said about the over-pressure-valve: didn't realize they were adjustable! So is this one of those things where you keep taking it off-and-on 'till you get it calibrated properly?
Jaybird
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Post by SeaRat on Apr 15, 2013 21:43:06 GMT -8
Jaybird, you don't need to "calibrate" these over-pressure relief valves, just tighten the spring enough that they don't leak when exposed to the intermediate pressure. It must be able to leak under increased pressure though, so there must be some spring movement left. Just put it on, and test it at about 500 psig (which is the higher interstage pressure when using an unbalanced piston first stage), and if it leaks tighten the top screw until it stops. But don't tighten it all the way down; the spring must be able to move. Not much to go on, but that is about all I know. They are pretty simple though, so I don't think you should waste too much "brain juice" on this. John
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Post by nikeajax on Apr 16, 2013 7:36:47 GMT -8
John, not wastin' much thought on it, just trying to get some bubbles flowin' around here is all... BTW, just in case you missed him, we have a new member, Oldsquid: I swears he's been a stealin' yer old photos Jaybird
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Post by sitkadiver on Apr 17, 2013 8:22:52 GMT -8
I don't have any numbers from a megnahelic, but the difference in breathing effort is definately noticable between the USD mouthpiece and the Healthways mouthpiece.
My latest rebuild is a Heathways Gold label and the reg breathes extremely well. To the point that I can get it to freeflow be drawing a breath and then pulling the mouthpiece away.
I have not put my Hope-Page on it to see how that breathes, but my guess is it would be on a level with the USD set-up.
I replaced the valves so I can display it as original and even dive it if I want, but in all honesty, I will be diving the reg witha USD set-up.
I keep looking out for Hope Page moutpieces, but they are very hard to come by. The last one I saw on E-Bay went for over $70. As much as I liek them, I simply cannot justify that expense.
If anyone knows of a good source of old rebreather pieces with a 1" hose attachment, maybe we could convert a few regs and test them.
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Post by nikeajax on Apr 17, 2013 9:36:29 GMT -8
Dave, there's a Hope-Page for sale at the Scuba Museum... wait, I just checked... gosh, only a VERY short while ago, it was $65, it just went up tenbux more!
I'm a cheapskate, I'm just gunna swap my HP out onto different regs as needed!
"My latest rebuild is a Heathways Gold label and the reg breathes extremely well. To the point that I can get it to freeflow be drawing a breath and then pulling the mouthpiece away."
Super-cool, I like hearing that. I found a while back on this site, where someone, don't remember who, made a deflector plate for their Deluxe, that covers the block and has an opening toward the hose to channel it in the right direction, as opposed to being more of an ambient thing like the original setup on the Voit VCR-5: gosh that's a cheap and fast fix/up grade!
Jaybird
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