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Post by vance on Oct 17, 2016 15:15:00 GMT -8
Hmmmm? If I'm reading you right, you'd still be pushing that water and air through a confined space, that being the air horn, no? Please, keep the ideas coming! JB EDIT: If the air horns on these weren't so choked down, thicker, an original Scuba duckbill would be perfect... So, no, I wasn't thinking about putting it inside the air horn. I was thinking about putting the valve in a coupler on the exhaust hose. But after thinking on it, if I understand what John has suggested, just insert a wagonwheel/valve inside the exhaust hose. If you used the EPDM hoses you could fit a pretty large wagonwheel/valve in it, and get it right up to the exhaust horn. Very little water should be able to get in at that point.
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Post by vance on Oct 17, 2016 15:20:50 GMT -8
- SwimJim was explaining how his Divair performed during his dive down to 130 feet. He said something about the Divair not having a duckbill (or exhaust valve... I forget exactly how he said it). But he said that it didn't seem to need one and his hoses were all totally dry for his entire 30 minute dive. He said he didn't even have to do the usual hose clearing roll that other double hose regs can sometimes need to clear the water out. - I don't know the workings of a Divair but I see you are discussing exhaust valves and modifications. I'm thinking that SwimJim's dive shows that maybe what is perceived as a problem at the surface may not be a problem at all in the actual DIVING use of the Divair? Yes, that's what John was saying. There is no duckbill or any kind of one way valve at the regulator. The reg body design was meant to keep water from being able to enter the exhaust hose due to the placement of the exhaust port. I just haven't had any experience with the Divair, and wasn't convinced that water would not enter the exhaust hose in some positions. My guess is, Jay had the same reservations. IF I ever get the diaphragm for mine, I'll try it as is, and report back. Phil
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Post by nikeajax on Oct 19, 2016 13:16:50 GMT -8
- SwimJim was explaining how his Divair performed during his dive down to 130 feet. He said something about the Divair not having a duckbill (or exhaust valve... I forget exactly how he said it). But he said that it didn't seem to need one and his hoses were all totally dry for his entire 30 minute dive. He said he didn't even have to do the usual hose clearing roll that other double hose regs can sometimes need to clear the water out. - I don't know the workings of a Divair but I see you are discussing exhaust valves and modifications. I'm thinking that SwimJim's dive shows that maybe what is perceived as a problem at the surface may not be a problem at all in the actual DIVING use of the Divair? As to why his hoses stayed clear and mine didn't, I can't explain. It would seen to me that at greater depths there would be more water pressure exerted trying to enter the hose: is this actually the opposite? My experience though, was the deeper I went, the more difficult my exhalations became; it was kind of a sickly sound, like a "death rattle": Terminal respiratory secretions, known colloquially as a death rattle, are sounds often produced by someone who is near death as a result of fluids such as saliva and bronchial secretions accumulating in the throat and upper chest.JB
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Post by vance on Oct 19, 2016 15:00:08 GMT -8
Diaphragm is ordered and should be on the way in a few days. I've scoured the internet resources including SwimJim, looking for a nylon plunger and hp spring. No luck. However, I'm convinced that the spring is the same as the HW Scuba spring. Still haven't gotten my tank back! I hope it passed...
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Post by surflung on Oct 21, 2016 11:29:16 GMT -8
SwimJim's Divair Video...
- I finally got this edited down to just a quick video showing SwimJim's Divair regulator pre-dive on the surface and underwater during the dive. Jim gave it a pretty good workout, including tipping at different angles to check breathing ease and dryness. The Divair passed all tests with flying colors!
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Post by SeaRat on Oct 21, 2016 11:47:40 GMT -8
- SwimJim was explaining how his Divair performed during his dive down to 130 feet. He said something about the Divair not having a duckbill (or exhaust valve... I forget exactly how he said it). But he said that it didn't seem to need one and his hoses were all totally dry for his entire 30 minute dive. He said he didn't even have to do the usual hose clearing roll that other double hose regs can sometimes need to clear the water out. - I don't know the workings of a Divair but I see you are discussing exhaust valves and modifications. I'm thinking that SwimJim's dive shows that maybe what is perceived as a problem at the surface may not be a problem at all in the actual DIVING use of the Divair? As to why his hoses stayed clear and mine didn't, I can't explain. It would seen to me that at greater depths there would be more water pressure exerted trying to enter the hose: is this actually the opposite? My experience though, was the deeper I went, the more difficult my exhalations became; it was kind of a sickly sound, like a "death rattle": Terminal respiratory secretions, known colloquially as a death rattle, are sounds often produced by someone who is near death as a result of fluids such as saliva and bronchial secretions accumulating in the throat and upper chest.JB JB, I would say. That your experience was different from SwimJim because he rarely, if ever, went head-down on his dive, whereas you did in a surface dive go head-down. This position, like that of the original Healthways SCUBA regulator without the duckbill valve, would cause the hose to start filling with water. SwimJim looked to be diving in the manner of current cave divers, using the frog kick and a horizontal position throughout the dive. A few years ago, I did some in-depth studies of the Healthways original Scuba regulator exhaust, without the non-return. I found that the hose would fill when I was head-down, but that I could clear it upon getting horizontal or in a vertical position. The exhaust on the Healthways original SCUBA regulator needed to be slightly higher than the center of the diaphragm in order to seal. I found the exhalation effort extremely small without the duckbill valve, but that the water in the hose was a problem for my style of diving. I did use this both in the pool (at 18 feet) and in the river at about 23 feet depth. The depth has nothing to do with how this valve works, only the orientation of the exhaust to the exhaust tube, which either captures the air in a bubble or releases it. The same would be true of the DivAir, without an exhaust, but with an open exhaust tube which is kept from flooding solely by the orientation of the regulator. If you go head-down, the water inside the exhaust housing can readily enter the exhaust tube, as there is nothing to prevent this. The DivAir and the Healthways SCUBA could not use the type of duckbill used by USD, as USD held the patent on this concept (the exhaust system is what was patented in the original Aqualung patent, #US2485039A: Now, about that "death rattle," as a former medic, there is a huge difference between a "death rattle" in the lungs and a gurgle inside the exhaust hose of a two hose regulator. 😅 And, all you needed to do to clear it was to turn right-side down and blow in a horizontal position. By the way, E.R. Cross used the DivAir on early working dives. John
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Post by SeaRat on Oct 21, 2016 16:15:52 GMT -8
Okay, I apparently am wrong! I was able to uncover the original patent for the Arpin DivAir regulator. In it, in the diagram, there is a duckbill valve! So there was actually, in the original patent, an exhaust valve. John
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Post by nikeajax on Oct 24, 2016 8:02:22 GMT -8
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Post by vance on Oct 24, 2016 13:55:21 GMT -8
Got the diaphragm from Jeff today. He was great to deal with. Although he's in Canada he brought it with him to the US on business to ship USPS and saved me 10 bucks! Thanks, Jeff! I'm that much closer to trying it out! Just waiting for my tank....
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Post by vance on Oct 28, 2016 10:20:39 GMT -8
The Divair is officially functional!
I finally collected and installed the original configuration in the hp valve: 1 coarse screen, 2 fine screens, new Healthways spring (I believe it to be the correct spring for this setup), original nylon plunger, topped off with a snap ring.
I attached it to my tank and it freeflowed like crazy. So, I removed the cover, took off the diaphragm, and reattached it to the tank. No freeflow. Valve closed tight! Slight finger pressure on the main actuator opened the valve.
There was no freeplay in the lever and the lifty part. That's where the second adjuster comes into play. When the primary lever adjuster is lifting the lever to the correct height, the second adjuster must be set to allow a slight play between the lever and the lifty part.
When I reinstalled the diaphragm, I allowed the disk to be very close to sitting on the lever arms. The bit of play in the linkage keeps the valve from being opened. I'm assuming that the closer you get the disk to the lever arms without opening the valve, the better.
I put some clamps on the hose loop, and tried it out. Seems perfect. I'll post the results when I get to try it out in the pool.
Phil
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Post by nikeajax on Oct 28, 2016 13:34:10 GMT -8
Phil, tricky, isn't it... but not impossible! That's why I was comparing it to a spine: you can move one part without it affecting the other. It does on the other hand help make it very sensitive when you do get it adjusted correctly: that's a good thing BTW since this is not a balanced reg, to get the best performance readjust it with a tank pressure of somewhere around 300-psig... JB
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Post by vance on Feb 7, 2017 19:31:40 GMT -8
Here's the finished product. It's been ready to dive for months, but the weather isn't cooperating! So here are some pics of the Divair after the reassembly and testing.
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Post by nikeajax on Feb 7, 2017 19:37:47 GMT -8
Hey, them're some nifty Tinnerman-clamps boy'o, an' that dust cover is waaaaay boss! Sayyyy, you wouldn't, oh, never mind JB
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