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Post by nemrod on Apr 7, 2007 8:50:02 GMT -8
Occasionally I am asked something so I give an answer. My new diving buddy had asked me sometime back what fins to get. I told him then, JetFins. He got some kinda Mares thing with hinges and graphics and stripes. Now, I have noticed that I use about 1/3 less air than my buddy and there are several reasons for this but one is the fins. My JetFins move me in current much better than those Mares he has. I could see it and observe it on the Oriskany dive and he finally sees it as well. I don't know the answer but when it comes to moving a scuba diver in current the old JetFin is hard to beat. Here is a quick and rough video my friend took on the Oriskany. I dove my Phoenix Royal Aqua Master, USD Atlantis mask, Jet Fins, Mach V wing on Hammerhead plate, 19cf pony with Oceanic Omega II and my Phoenix was supporting a tekna T2100 for required octapus and LP inflator for the wing and spg/console. I also used a Aeries Atomos wrist computer. My wet suit was a new Bare 5/4 cheapo. The current was ripping from surface to the deck. Our max depth was just not quite 130 feet. The current and the depth really put the Phoenix to the test which it passed with flying colors--effortless into a ripping current at 130 feet. We were on 30% nitrox BTW.  SDIV was great fun.   At the Destin Jetty we dove into a waning incoming tide. Again the UDT fins from VSS clearly pushed me much more efficiently than my buddies stupid Mares fins. I dove my hot rod DA Aqua Master, 1/4 sharkskin vintage suit, SeaTec horsecollar BC, Air Buddy octapus. The DA was fitted with a LP swivel on a OldMoss adapter and a Chuck banjo for my SeaVue. I hit about 55 feet max. The big story is the 7 foot bull shark that made three passes at us over about a four minute period, kinda close too. The old SeaHawk was about to see some action--lol. Nemrod |
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Post by duckbill on Apr 7, 2007 11:13:32 GMT -8
Hi James, are you using SuperJets or standard Jetfins there?
Watch out for those bulls. I hear they bite things just for fun!
Gotta love that clear spring water. Was that shot at Weeki Wachee?
Thanks for sharing.
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Post by JES on Apr 7, 2007 15:29:51 GMT -8
Duckbill, Nemrod dives with ScubaPro Jet Fins. Like him they are my favorite as well. They are much better then Rocket fins or any split fin if you find yourself in a current or a silty environment.  Were the SuperJet fins made by Aqualus or the Aqua Lung Super Rocket fins the fins that you were referring to? |
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Post by duckbill on Apr 7, 2007 16:57:08 GMT -8
You're right, Joe. Sorry for the confusion. I had to go review my own thread from nearly a year-and-a-half ago: vintagescuba.proboards2.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&n=1&thread=580Here are the ones I meant. They are both ScubaPro Jetfins. The ones on the left are my everyday fins (no size on them), while I use the ones on the right occasionally when I don't think there's a chance I'll need to do any heavy finning (marked size "X-Large"). I'm just wondering if James was able to tackle that current with the ones like on the left. I use mine in the river where I can stay out of the main current by hugging the bottom and staying along the banks, but his video shows a pretty steady current at the big "O". There's a big difference in finning effort between the two.  |
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Post by JES on Apr 7, 2007 17:47:33 GMT -8
Thank you for posting the link to your old thread. I had forgotten about this discussion.  Just a note of interest about the modern Jetfins. They come with the lightning-bolt through the ScubaPro logo like SeaRat mentions in his post. |
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Post by SeaRat on Apr 7, 2007 20:10:35 GMT -8
My 1986 Scubapro Catelog states this about these fins:
LIGHTNING "JET FIN"
Quoting that out of their catelog, I have to say that I have a copy of U.S. Patent #3,183,529, "Swimmers oot-Fin with Thrust-Accelerating Device," My 18, 1965. It shows the Jet Fin, and was awarded to Georges Beuchat. So it wasn't Scubapro engineers who came up with this fin.
John
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Post by nemrod on Apr 7, 2007 22:49:11 GMT -8
Mine are what was once called Super Jets. They are XL size and they look like the ones on the RIGHT except they have the lightening bolt emblem. The UDT fin is just about as powerfull if not equal but does not work well with boots---lol. If you notice on the video the fish are swimming like crazy and going backwards. They current was very strong. I am positive that one of the reasons I use so much less air than my buddy is the fins. Afterall, I am twice his age and half as fit even if I have much more time in the water. Another aspect is the better streamlining of a BP/wing vs his cumberbund back inflate vest jacket thingy. It is only under the more extreme conditions that such things become significant, otherwise how could so many plastic finned and poodle jacket ensconced divers get along.
I have as stated before taped over the slots in my Jets and I can tell no actual difference. I don't think the slots do anything other than looking cool.
James
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Post by JES on Apr 8, 2007 2:46:19 GMT -8
Jet Fins now come in the following sizes: M 7-8 L 9-10 XL 11-12 XXL 13-14 They are all called Jet Fins (no Regular, Intermediate, or Super Jet Fin now  ) and they all have an MSRP of $102.00. |
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Post by nemrod on Apr 8, 2007 9:04:51 GMT -8
When we, Joe, Jake, Jose and myself, visited the DIR Borg Hive Headquarters in High Spring Florida, Extreme Exposure, it was pretty funny. They had an entire wall of fins for your selection--an entire wall!!!!!!!!!! yes, you had your complete selection of Jet Fins, oh, and Jet Fins, and some more Jet Fins and yep, Jet Fins surrounded by Jet Fins and more Jet Fins. The Jet Fin mother load was then accented by Halcyon Spring Straps and and three OMS Turtle Jet Fin clones just for the sake of diversity. All in BLACK. Listen up--not one single other type of fin graced the store in any way. They sold for exactly 102.00.
I stopped by a shop in Pensacola for some air and they had Jets for 80 dollars and claimed they were closing them out --yeah--right. On the boat to the Mighty O I noticed the DM had Jets, I had Jets, four of the paying divers had Jets save for Jake with his multicolored and striped spring levered Mares fins that flapped in the current like cardboard.
It has been said that you can judge a man by his shoes, my grandfather was big on old sayings like that. Good shoes are important. Well, I find myself, outside of the vintage dive world, judging a diver by his/her fins. Whatever other equipment they might have, a battle scared set of Jets wins instant approval.
Jets will kill your feet if you don't go to some effort to get good fitting boots etc. I think the foot pocket design is specifically inteneded to torture divers as a right of passing.
Nemrod
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Post by duckbill on Apr 8, 2007 11:56:25 GMT -8
I had to put some neoprene spacers in my Super Jet foot pockets to take up the extra space. Not ideal at depth, for obvious reasons. I think your bike riding must help to condition your calves for those Super Jets. I love my regular pair, but sometimes wish I had more thrust. My Power Planas are also calf-killers, and those are the first fins I bought at certification. I still have them, too. If that current at the big "O" was typical, I'd be surprised if the operators don't consistently "lose" some divers to it. They must have plenty of lines attached to the wreck. Pretty neat picture of that sponge diver you came across at Destin!  ----------------------------------------------------------- Thankyou, John and Joe. I have noted the Jet Fin sizings for reference. |
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Post by JES on Apr 8, 2007 12:17:01 GMT -8
When we, Joe, Jake, Jose and myself, visited the DIR Borg Hive Headquarters in High Spring Florida, Extreme Exposure, it was pretty funny. .... Nemrod The guys in the Extreme Exposure were great and enjoyed seeing our double hose regulators. Hard to believe but James and I both purchased 5 foot regulator hoses!  DIR resistance is futile, you will be assimilated....  |
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Post by swimjim on Apr 8, 2007 13:10:02 GMT -8
When we, Joe, Jake, Jose and myself, visited the DIR Borg Hive Headquarters in High Spring Florida, Extreme Exposure, it was pretty funny. .... Nemrod The guys in the Extreme Exposure were great and enjoyed seeing our double hose regulators. Hard to believe but James and I both purchased 5 foot regulator hoses! DIR resistance is futile, you will be assimilated.... [/quote So Joe, does this mean your going to have to come up with a set of seven foot hoses for your Phoenix??? |
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Post by nemrod on Apr 8, 2007 14:38:27 GMT -8
I don't think that much current is ordinary. Typically the Gulf has a surface current that dissaptes about ten to twenty feet down to virtually nothing. This was very unusual both in strength and that it went so deep.
Shhhhhhh, Joe, you were not supposed to tell. I plan to put the 5 foot hose on the Phoenix for the octapus. The Extreme Exposure guys were the friendliest people I had met on the trip. Perhaps they sensed the Force was strong in us or something.
Nemrod
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Post by SeaRat on Apr 8, 2007 20:15:53 GMT -8
There are two other things that influence the amount of air consumed that you haven't yet mentioned, Nemrod. The first is the type of stroke you take with the fins. I looked the video over a few times, and it is apparent that you are taking very shallow fin strokes. Tests have shown that this is the most efficient way to use fins. The second is that it is very difficult to be streamlined handling a camera, and as can be seen in the photos, your buddy was having problems maintaining stability when swimming, probably becaues of the camera. I thought I would throw that in too.
John
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Post by nemrod on Apr 8, 2007 22:44:44 GMT -8
Well, SeaRat, your observations are good, there were issues with stability--lol. The current was banging us about, I dumped my bouyancy and just went negative so I could pin myself to the wreck. I think the other issue is one that is not apparent unless you have dived with me--I go along pretty fast even though it does not appear so until trying to keep up with me and epecially when there is a desitnation or reason in mind. No, the disparity in air consumption between he and I exists when there is no camera or current, while some of it is comfort level a lot I have come to the conclusion is equipment related and mostly fin related. His fins, and I have used similar fins, just simply don't make good thrust efficiently and seem to require a wider kick to load the spring hinges on them to make thrust which again as you note reduces efficiency. The shallow strokes are no accident but I also often alternate them with a side scissor kick or a frog kick.
The camera induced instability is the result of dependency upon hand and arm swimming that virtually all new divers do and it just takes time to learn to put the hands and arms away. That certainly adds to air consumption. Hand swimming is not very efficient.
Yes, good observations, old time divers have learned to become efficient in the water, new divers have to learn, it takes a while to get there. My scuba instructor actually tied my arms under me. Yeah, he did, it broke me of the arm and hand waving spastic motions. It is a comon mistake of new and old divers alike.
Nemrod
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) and they all have an MSRP of $102.00.
