jviss
Pro Diver
Posts: 209
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Post by jviss on Sept 12, 2007 9:18:21 GMT -8
Based on the discussions here, and after searching for a wetsuit I like, I've decided to pursue making one. Maybe more if there's demand.
For your criticism, my understanding so far:
1. smooth neoprene (non-lined) is warmer than otherwise; 2. sharkskin outside is less prone to damage; 3. tougher to don than fabric lined; 4. seams should be glued, minimally; 5. stitching dramatically strengthens seams; 6. stitching should be blind, i.e., not through the material; 7. Rubatex G-231 is the best wetsuit material;
My preference is for a "classic" "five-zipper" wetsuit, nickel-plated brass zippers on jacket, and on wrists and ankles; beavertail with nickel-plated brass turnbuttons. "Normal" collar height. Thin, flat neoprene "gaskets" (terminology?) under the zippers, glued (not sewn) so they are easily renewed. Straight jacket torso shape. "Raw" (cut) edges, not bound. Maybe sealed edges(?).
I ordered samples from Rubatex. Need to gather specifications and sources, and prices for solvent, primer, cement, thread.
I need a design and pattern. I can scale it to different sizes, but a good pattern design is important. I'd like to minimize the number of seams. An authentic pattern would be best. I need to know whether the seams should be stitched inside, outside, or both. Should the seams be taped inside? With what?
I need to learn what kind of machine does the blind stitch I need, and where to get one (eBay, I guess!). And, of course, I need the skill to do it.
My wife is a very talented sewer, she may end up bailing me out!
I would appreciate any input on this.
Thanks,
jv
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Post by duckbill on Sept 12, 2007 10:53:24 GMT -8
For anyone's criticism since I've never worn a skin-in suit, my understanding so far: Based on the discussions here, and after searching for a wetsuit I like, I've decided to pursue making one. Maybe more if there's demand. For your criticism, my understanding so far: 1. smooth neoprene (non-lined) is warmer than otherwise; Only if the skin is in, against your skin. The idea is that there is no fabric layer to hold more water than if it wasn't there. Fabric on the exterior provides no real insulation, just tear resistance.2. sharkskin outside is less prone to damage; Supposedly it is more flexible. The process of stamping the sharkskin pattern may "toughen" the outer layer of neoprene? Just a thought. I've heard it said that sharkskin is tougher than slickskin. Good luck finding any, though.3. tougher to don than fabric lined; Might be just as easy if using a soap solution? Maybe not tougher so much as more of a pain in the rear. I've wondered about this myself.4. seams should be glued, minimally; 5. stitching dramatically strengthens seams; Only if it is fabric lined. If there is no fabric, DON'T STITCH!6. stitching should be blind, i.e., not through the material; Yes. But see above. I thought you wanted a slickskin suit. Do you want slickskin on the exterior or interior, or both? If you use fabric- one side laminated neoprene, would you want the fabric on the outside so it is warmer on the inside, or the fabric on the inside for strength and so the outside is slickskin?7. Rubatex G-231 is the best wetsuit material; My preference is for a "classic" "five-zipper" wetsuit, nickel-plated brass zippers on jacket, and on wrists and ankles; beavertail with nickel-plated brass turnbuttons. "Normal" collar height. Thin, flat neoprene "gaskets" (terminology?) under the zippers, glued (not sewn) so they are easily renewed. Straight jacket torso shape. "Raw" (cut) edges, not bound. Maybe sealed edges(?). I ordered samples from Rubatex. Need to gather specifications and sources, and prices for solvent, primer, cement, thread. I need a design and pattern. I can scale it to different sizes, but a good pattern design is important. I'd like to minimize the number of seams. An authentic pattern would be best. I need to know whether the seams should be stitched inside, outside, or both. Again, it sounds like you misunderstood the idea of stitching. It is ONLY for fabric, and the stitching should penetrate the neoprene as little as possible. Stitching just neoprene will do nothing but weaken it. Should the seams be taped inside? With what? I need to learn what kind of machine does the blind stitch I need, and where to get one (eBay, I guess!). And, of course, I need the skill to do it. My wife is a very talented sewer, she may end up bailing me out! I would appreciate any input on this. Thanks, jv
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Post by scubadiverbob on Sept 13, 2007 0:31:21 GMT -8
My preference is no wetsuit at all; but, since I'm in No. CA I have to wear a shorty (well, one time I dove in the river with no wetsuit; though I don't recommend this for most people, the water is usually 58 degrees). Without a wetsuit I didn't need a weightbelt; I liked that!
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Post by scubadiverbob on Sept 13, 2007 0:34:22 GMT -8
Wonder if they would put the long zippers in the wetsuit I have? Zippers are nice when It comes to putting the wetsuit on.
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jviss
Pro Diver
Posts: 209
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Post by jviss on Sept 15, 2007 5:16:46 GMT -8
So, given duckbill's response, I don't need to sew an unlined wetsuit at all, except for installing the zippers.
This makes it much simpler. All that I need is a good pattern that I can size/scale to myself. I guess I could even model the sized pattern in a cheap material to test the size before committing to the Rubatex.
Does anyone have a wetsuit pattern I can use as a starting point?
Thanks,
jv
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jviss
Pro Diver
Posts: 209
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Post by jviss on Sept 15, 2007 6:49:54 GMT -8
Your best option is to just get the fellow known as snowflake on ebay to make you a custom vintage smooth skin 5 MM suit. He makes them old style, totally autentic including zippers and snaps and cut. Nemrod I looked into that. When asked they replied they would even make it 1/4" (5mm is about 20% less than 1/4"). However, since I sent a follow-up email asking about the availability of sharkskin, construction of the zippers, and so on, they have become unresponsive.
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Post by scubadiverbob on Sept 15, 2007 8:17:58 GMT -8
Let me see if I can get a web-site for you. Sounds like your really going to do this. The best wetsuit person around is Cricket; but, it's been a while since I talked to her. I'm definately not on expert on wetsuits; but, she's been in the business for quite some time. She will know what kind of machine you'll need and can give you expert advise. I'm going web searching. Be back soon.
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Post by scubadiverbob on Sept 15, 2007 8:41:41 GMT -8
otterbaysuits.com/Copy and paste this site. If you call them ask for Cricket. She is probably the most knowledgable person in the wetsuit industry. Like I said, I don't know much about wetsuits, except, I hate having to wear them; so, if I gave you any advise it'd probably be wrong. Lycra on the inside is vintage (came out in the early eighties) and makes the suit more comfortable to put on and wear (my first custom suit had lycra inside and nylon 2 outside). Hope this helps you out! (I really hate hoods ... just wear a 3mm to keep my ears warm).
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jviss
Pro Diver
Posts: 209
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Post by jviss on Sept 15, 2007 8:49:57 GMT -8
Bob, thanks, but I don't see how Otter Bay would help me unless they are willing to give me a pattern. I also don't see how they are vintage, either. They are certainly expensive, though.
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Post by scubadiverbob on Sept 15, 2007 9:01:51 GMT -8
They would know what kind of sewing machine you would need and I don't think they would see you as a competitor (they probably don't do many vintage suits and if you get good at it they might use you as a referal). They've been around for along time and might have a pattern somewhere in their archives; don't know. Cricket is very friendly. Just call her. Here is contact info:
Otter Bay Wetsuits 201 Hoffman Ave., #1 Monterey, CA 93940 888-220-1453 cricket@otterbaysuits.com
Hours: Friday-Sunday, 9AM-6PM Monday & Tuesday, 9AM-5PM Closed Wednesday & Thursday
They are open now.
Robert
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jviss
Pro Diver
Posts: 209
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Post by jviss on Sept 15, 2007 9:46:12 GMT -8
Thanks again, Bob. I just called. She gets $150 for a pattern based on one's measurements, which is outside my budget.
So, still looking for a free, or nearly free pattern.
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Post by scubadiverbob on Sept 15, 2007 11:34:08 GMT -8
Did she tell you what kind of sewing machine you'd need to do that stitching? She fixed my booties for something like $25.00; but, that's been four years ago. She did a great job on them. Her number is tool free; so, keep her in mind incase you have further questions. Most of the dive shops around here use her for major wetsuit stuff. She's right , every single person is a different pattern. That would be outside my price range right now; but, is part of the cost of a custom wetsuit, I'd think. You should see if there is a community college were you live that teaches tayloring. I'd think that would cover how to make your own patterns.
Robert
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jviss
Pro Diver
Posts: 209
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Post by jviss on Sept 16, 2007 7:44:49 GMT -8
Did she tell you what kind of sewing machine you'd need to do that stitching? She fixed my booties for something like $25.00; but, that's been four years ago. She did a great job on them. Her number is tool free; so, keep her in mind incase you have further questions. Most of the dive shops around here use her for major wetsuit stuff. She's right , every single person is a different pattern. That would be outside my price range right now; but, is part of the cost of a custom wetsuit, I'd think. You should see if there is a community college were you live that teaches tayloring. I'd think that would cover how to make your own patterns. Robert I don't need a sewing machine, I'm just going to glue it - there's no fabric involved. The zippers can be done on my conventional Viking machine.
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Post by scubadiverbob on Sept 16, 2007 9:17:00 GMT -8
jviss,
Here is what you asked. I don't know the answer; that's why I mentioned asking Cricket. I guess just glueing will work. I've never tackled making a wetsuit. Sounds like an interesting project. Good luck, have fun, and show us all pictures when your done making your suit.
4. seams should be glued, minimally; 5. stitching dramatically strengthens seams; 6. stitching should be blind, i.e., not through the material;
I need to learn what kind of machine does the blind stitch I need, and where to get one (eBay, I guess!). And, of course, I need the skill to do it
Robert
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Post by SeaRat on Sept 16, 2007 9:45:12 GMT -8
There is a book called Handbook for Skin Divers by George Bronson-Howard, which is a "An Arco How-To book," dated in the 1950s (it has no copyright notation). It has several pages on how to make your own wet suit. If I find the time, I'll scan those pages and post them here. Well, I had time, so here they are: I can only add that you should take your own measurements, and make them into the pattern. The photos show the types of cuts you need to make. You can also make booties and gloves for yourself, using a template of your own foot. I used to make booties by taking an outline of my foot, cutting it about a quarter inch bigger, then making it like a moccosins. I used an old trailcraft book, which I currently do not have. But I did find this on the web: www.jumaka.com/moccasins/MakingMoccasins/MoccasinInstructions.htmThe only difference is that you would be making it out of neoprene, skin tight, and gluing it together. We used to glue a footprint of outdoor carpeting onto the bottom of the boot too, so we could walk on barnacles on the Oregon Coast rocks. This was in the 1960s, when I was a high school student and kinda poor (firs scuba equipment bought used using strawberry- and bean-picking money). We made three-finger gloves by simply outlining our hands with the first finger apart, and the other three together, leaving about a quarter inch (maybe a bit more) overlap, then simply gluing them together. We used 1/8 inch (3 mm) neoprene (usually nylon-backed, with the nylon on the outside), which gave us mobility and retained the warmth we needed. Enjoy, John
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