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Post by ScoobieDoo on Apr 30, 2004 19:38:12 GMT -8
I just received an e-mail from a friend and owner of a local scuba shop. I can't state store names or certification agency name, brands he sells, services, etc.
But, I can tell you this is what he had to say:
He states that Sam is totally correct and that he has spent more time in the last year attending seminars on risk management, etc. He states that yes you are dealing with life support equip and that if something goes wrong you could be found liable. This applies to selling parts, kits, services, etc. over the internet as well.
Frankly I shocked that others have not researched this topic thoroughly prior to this issue coming up - ESPECIALLY the other person on this board who was supposed to have been a certified scuba tech prior to this!
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Post by Linda on Apr 30, 2004 21:41:58 GMT -8
Mike, please... First of all, when you say "you are dealing with life support equip and that if something goes wrong you could be found liable. This applies to selling parts, kits, services, etc. over the internet as well.".... First of all, your statement implies that this is some kind of newsflash, never heard before by others. Maybe it is you that didn't consider...? You cannot ASSUME that others have not taken steps to protect themselves. Second, and perhaps more importantly, when you say "ESPECIALLY the other person on this board who was supposed to have been a certified scuba tech prior to this!"... This is targeting another member of the forum.... EGGING ON, so to speak... In which case I just have to say, LET IT LIE. PLEASE, STOP. Don't start anew. I hate to play the heavy here, but really, don't start it up again. I WILL DELETE YOU. PLAY NICE!  |
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Post by ScoobieDoo on May 1, 2004 2:25:40 GMT -8
Linda,
It's called 'trolling.' Its an effective way to get others to respond, etc.
Well, I'll rephrase it then:
What steps have others taken to prevent being sued or being liable in the event of a death or mishap?
Is a disclaimer effective enough to prevent being sued?
Personally, I can't even fathom why anoyone would want to sell/service gear when the potential is so great for suits.
Yea, the thought had crossed my mind prior to selling parts - but now, the seriousness of such is becoming vividly clear from attorney's and diving shop retailers.
Perhaps each retailer is carrying massive amounts of liability insurance?
Thoughts?
This petty much sums it up:
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Post by VintageDiverMN on May 1, 2004 7:45:43 GMT -8
Lets keep the greedy lawyers out of our vintage diving hobby and just injoy our sport. A well trained diver should be able to get them self out of trouble if their equpment fails, if they think they can't, maybe they should sign up for some advance training. Frans
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Post by ScoobieDoo on May 1, 2004 8:18:18 GMT -8
Frans,
Well, we can as long as no one happens to get hurt or have a mishap diving.
But as Sam says - one can't help but consider the probability that someday, somewhere, it may occur.
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Post by caveman on May 1, 2004 14:22:47 GMT -8
risky . caveman
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Post by Terry on May 1, 2004 14:49:26 GMT -8
As that old saying goes: "watch out everybody - The Sky Is Falling, The Sky Is Falling"! Now; I think it's time to go get my vintage gear and go have some fun! It was fun 40 years ago, and it's still as much fun as it was then. I also didn't worry about any lawyers back then as a "Pre-dive Check" and I'm sure as hell not gonna worry about them today. C'mon guys; go have fun! Let's not ruin all the hard efforts that guys like Dan Barringer and others have put forth to help all of us be able to still use that good ole vintage equipment we all love, and in many of our cases started out with. Safe diving to all! Terry Now let's see; where did I put my attorneys phone number?
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Post by ScoobieDoo on May 1, 2004 15:01:44 GMT -8
LOL!
Terry, in now way am I suggesting that ANYONE stop diving, having fun, collecting vintage gear, etc. Not at all! On the contrary...
I'm just saying, for myself, I'll be a tad more careful who I allow to service my gear, where I (they) get the parts, where my parts are made, and what the credentials ARE of the person(s) whom are doing the servicing, buying or selling of the parts.
I used to spelunk, rock and ice climb years ago. I had lots of hardware. Ropes for rappelling, harnesses, crampons, ice tools, chocks, carabiners, etc.
A major climber from Yosemite in the 50’s named Yvon Chouinard founded a company named ‘Chouinard.’ Chouinard and Salathe' went on to climb El Cap and a bunch of alpine climbs in Europe before coming to America.
In the 80's a climber failed to thread his climbing harness properly thru the belt buckle (diagram was on the buckle itself as well – and each harness was packaged with instructions AND a disclaimer). While climbing the nylon waist belt slipped thru the buckle on him - he was killed. Chouinard got sued promptly. He lost millions, and was forced to reform his firm under a new name – Black Diamond.
After that, while Black Diamond is still a major 'player' - he never formed the status and financial recouperation after that loss.
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Post by Terry on May 1, 2004 15:26:04 GMT -8
Heah Mike; I hear Ya. It's a damn shame when you or anyone else has to worry about liability in any case such as this. Unfortunately it's a sign of the times we live in, and it can ruin what is and SHOULD BE nothing more than pure enjoyment for all of us who still enjoy diving "The Good Ole Stuff". I learned to dive back in the early 60's and the equipment was fine then, and as far as I'm concerned it's still very safe to dive with. As far as any new repro parts that are being made available to us - Heah; what can I say; I've got confidence in them and also the people who have busted their tails to make these parts available to us. The way I see it; those who have put forth the great efforts that they have to make these repro parts available to us also know damn good and well what we're all up against when it comes to availability of new parts. In most cases there aren't any available, and it's because of all of their efforts that we now have sources available to obtain parts to restore these great pieces of diving equipment history. I also feel VERY CONFIDENT in regards to the safety of using any of these parts, and that the people who are making them available are also very well aware of how significant the safety factor is; since I'm sure they are also using these same parts. As for me; my "Sincerest Thanks" to all who have put forth so much effort, time and expense to make these parts available to all of us, and I know that my Voit Navy and USD AquaMaster DA really appreciate it. Safe diving to you, and everyone! Terry
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Post by ScoobieDoo on May 1, 2004 16:41:47 GMT -8
Terry,
I hear ya. And, I agree that I'm sure everyone's parts ARE good. The problem is though when the lawyers get done with stuff - they have a funny way of tunring things around all the time.
I can just see the scenario in my case - get hauled into court and I can hear the attorney already...
Perry Mason: "So ScoobieDoo, let me ask you - were your parts approved or made under agreement by USD or Aqua Lung?"
Me: "No."
Perry Mason: "Do you hold a certification by USD or AL in regulator repair, etc?"
Me: "Nope."
PM: "Do you hold a degree in engineering, parts fabrication, design, or metalurgy?"
Me: "Nope."
DA: "Do you hold a Phd or Masters?"
Me: "Nope."
PM: "Ever work for USD or AL? How about any other diving manuf?"
Me: "Nope."
PM: "So let the court ask you then - how the he-double toothpicks did you feel you were qualified to design make, assemble, repair, or sell scuba parts?
You've told us that you hold no 'official' certification nor degree - no formal degree in fabrication and engineering. What the hell were you thinking?"
Me: "Uhhhh, uhhhh."
Judge: House, car, boat, savings, money, assets, stocks, Rn license....bye bye.
Cha-ching, Cha ching! $$$$$$$
Can ya hear me now? Life ruined...
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Post by caveman on May 1, 2004 16:48:08 GMT -8
Let me get this straight. If I bought some of your scuba parts and got Perry Mason to sue you after the fact, I could have your boat? NOT GOOD....(already have a boat) Do you have a Harley or something else of value I could have instead? caveman
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Post by caveman on May 1, 2004 16:50:24 GMT -8
Maby I could just sue for the rest of your scuba parts and go into business for myself. caveman
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Post by ScoobieDoo on May 1, 2004 16:52:24 GMT -8
Maybe!
But you had better allocate some big time funds for liability insurance!
Would a 1200 Sporster work for ya?
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Post by caveman on May 1, 2004 16:53:58 GMT -8
Sure would.............I make humor, but I understand where you are coming from. caveman
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Post by ScoobieDoo on May 1, 2004 16:57:07 GMT -8
Well,
we do have a real nice home, and a dog and cat as well - and, a garage full of scuba gear, mixing whip, laptop with V-Planner on it al all...but...
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