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Fins
Oct 4, 2012 20:18:38 GMT -8
Post by duckbill on Oct 4, 2012 20:18:38 GMT -8
Really, let me add, y'all toss that Armor All stuff. I use the 303 for years. It is expensive and usually only had at marine and aviation supply houses, thus the expense. It does not melt the plastic and rubber which is why the Armor All seems to make things soft until they are destroyed and expire. Emphatic ditto on the Armorall vs. rubber.
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Fins
Oct 5, 2012 7:20:34 GMT -8
Post by sitkadiver on Oct 5, 2012 7:20:34 GMT -8
Really, let me add, y'all toss that Armor All stuff. I use the 303 for years. It is expensive and usually only had at marine and aviation supply houses, thus the expense. It does not melt the plastic and rubber which is why the Armor All seems to make things soft until they are destroyed and expire. Emphatic ditto on the Armorall vs. rubber. OKAY - OKAY - OKAY !!!! I know an intervention when I see one, so here goes: I, Sitkadiver, do solemny swear and affirm that I will no longer apply Armor All protection product to my dive gear, no matter how shiny and new it makes it look for the short duration of dry spells between dives. I also realize that, as I was told on another website, putting Armor All on my dive gear and then using it in the ocean is bad for fish. Being a Pisces, I am keenly aware and empathetic to the fact that fish are friends AND food and that they are already shiny and pretty and do not need Armor All in any way, shape or form. Signed and Witnessed before the enitre vintage diving community this 5th day of October, 2012.
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Fins
Oct 5, 2012 9:09:15 GMT -8
Post by duckbill on Oct 5, 2012 9:09:15 GMT -8
Emphatic ditto on the Armorall vs. rubber. I also realize that, as I was told on another website, putting Armor All on my dive gear and then using it in the ocean is bad for fish. Oh, brother. I highly doubt it makes any difference at all in the grand sceme of things. This environmental stuff has gotten way out of hand when someone tells you this. JMO. -Mr. Fedup
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Fins
Oct 5, 2012 13:47:20 GMT -8
Post by SeaRat on Oct 5, 2012 13:47:20 GMT -8
John... I love your full foot Duck Feet! First time I see one of those... Personally, I'm a big fan of Full foot fins... and adding to that the vintage style element it make them just perfect. How do they perform?? Thanks a lot for posting this fins subject! Harry. Harry, I actually have two pair of these full foot Duck Feet. One has the rib over the toe, and the other has the rib cut away. The one with the rib over the open toe pinches a bit, but I got used to it. The other without that rib over the open toe is the most comfortable full foot fin I have owned. I really like it and use it in the pool all the time. I'll get some photo close-ups next week. John
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Fins
Oct 5, 2012 15:42:11 GMT -8
Post by nemrod on Oct 5, 2012 15:42:11 GMT -8
My recommendation to toss the Armor All had nothing to do with the environment and everything to do with it being an inferior product.
Did you cut the rib away or was it made that way?
Nem
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Fins
Oct 5, 2012 18:57:00 GMT -8
Post by SeaRat on Oct 5, 2012 18:57:00 GMT -8
Nem,
First, Armor All is a very old product. I remember it from way, way back. But I use spray Silicone on my fins, usually water-based.
Concerning the Full Foot Duck Feet, one had the rib over the toes and one had no rib, and they are clearly different. I think they are different models of their Full Foot Duck Feet.
I'll have more info on them next week when I get a chance to take some close-up photos. This weekend is taken with a family event.
John
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Fins
Oct 13, 2012 16:45:16 GMT -8
Post by SeaRat on Oct 13, 2012 16:45:16 GMT -8
Here are the two sets of full-foot duck feet fins that I have. One set has the open toe, and the other has a rib over the toe. John Attachments:
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Fins
Oct 13, 2012 16:46:40 GMT -8
Post by SeaRat on Oct 13, 2012 16:46:40 GMT -8
This is the open-toed duck foot fin. Note that the rib is not high off the fin. Note also the cracking of the fin blade due to the drying out of the rubber before I got it. I have stopped it from going further with silicone, but the cracks are still there. I have used them, and they are very comfortable. The cracks are very superficial, but the fins do leave black marks on the pool side if I do a flip turn while swimming. John Attachments:
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Fins
Oct 13, 2012 16:50:52 GMT -8
Post by SeaRat on Oct 13, 2012 16:50:52 GMT -8
Here is the other set, with the rib over the open toe area. This produces a fin blade that is slightly stiffer, and also bends down onto the toes a bit. The sensation is at first uncomfortable, but with a bit of petroleum jelly on my toes, it is fine. This set is in much better shape, without deterioration of the rubber. I think that these are two different models, as the ribs seem finished on both sets. I don't think, in other words, that the rib was cut or abraded down after molding, but that the two models simply used a different mold. This fin is stamped "blemish", which I'll show below. John Attachments:
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Fins
Oct 13, 2012 16:54:25 GMT -8
Post by SeaRat on Oct 13, 2012 16:54:25 GMT -8
Here is the "BLEMISH" mark on these fins. I think that their great condition was because they were never sold. I picked them off E-Bay, but don't know their history. Look also at the rib over the open toe. They did cut out the area where the toes go. This does show that Swimaster did have a quality assurance program though. When I was in the U.S. Navy School for Underwater Swimmers, I'm pretty sure that the instructor in the T-shirt was wearing full-foot Duck Feet. These two photos below are from our 120 foot qualifying dive on board a Navy boat. I'll have to get this posted to see whether his fins can be seen on the boat. But I did see one set being used by the Navy instructors. [Nope, I cannot see them, but this is where I first did see these fins.] Maybe David Richie Wilson can help us out on whether there were two different models? John Attachments:
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Fins
Oct 13, 2012 20:23:22 GMT -8
Post by nemrod on Oct 13, 2012 20:23:22 GMT -8
Very nice post and photos. It looks as if the one was manufactured without the rib, not cut?
Nem
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Fins
Oct 14, 2012 1:24:45 GMT -8
Post by DavidRitchieWilson on Oct 14, 2012 1:24:45 GMT -8
Maybe David Ritchie Wilson can help us out on whether there were two different models? John Well, when in doubt, go by the stock numbers. Full Foot Model Duck Feet (stock number #2F65) appear, priced from $11.95 to $12.95 for sizes 4-6, 6-8, 8-10 and 10-12, in my copy of Swimaster's Skin Diving Equipment catalogue of 1962. The Full Foot Giant Model Duck Feet (stock number #2F70) were a dollar or two dearer. The #2F65s resembled the pair below, without a rib over the toe opening: I see a pair of two-tone Full Foot Duck Feet, without "toe-ribs", appeared recently on eBay: As for the "toe-rib" version, here's an ad from the Skin Diving History site: Unfortunately, no stock number, but this undated ad dates from a time when Swimaster was an affiliate of Pacific Moulded Products Co. My conclusion? The version with the toe rib was the first full foot Duck Foot model. The SDH ad says as much, while the SDH site ad below is dated 1959 by SDH: The non-toe-rib #2F65 version came later (perhaps 1962), after Swimaster began operating under the auspices of AMF Voit. David
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Fins
Oct 14, 2012 7:31:05 GMT -8
Post by nemrod on Oct 14, 2012 7:31:05 GMT -8
How much shorter are these compared to the UDT set?
The area on so many of these fins that goes bad first is the heel strap rubber. Has anyone ever drilled and then burnished a 1/4 inch hole and installed a stainless T-nut and screw thus producing a peg for spring straps or something similar?
Nem
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Fins
Oct 14, 2012 13:25:06 GMT -8
Post by SeaRat on Oct 14, 2012 13:25:06 GMT -8
Nemrod,
Here are the measurements:
Full Foot Duck Feet: 19 3/8 inches UDT Giant Duck Feet: 21 1/2 inches
I'll have a photo of this shortly. The dimensions are different too, so it would be difficult to compare the two. Measurements are somewhat difficult, as the center plane of the fin must be used to make them.
Concerning making a hole to put in a heel strap of the UDT Giant Duck Feet, I have not heard of anyone doing that. I don't think it would be too good either, as it might allow any metal piece to rub against the foot. The really nice thing about the open heel of the Giant Duck Feet is that this is very streamlined. Heel straps today have mechanisms which serve to cause a disruption of water flow along the foot. This also makes the Full Foot Duck Feet attractive in that they are comfortable without inhibiting the flow of the water around the foot.
David,
Thank you for filling in the blanks. I thought you'd have information on this one. I have a box, with the Swimaster painting on it, but no fin model number. The box was for the later version of the Full Foot Duck Feet, without the rib over the toe packet, and was labeled as "Marketed by W. J. VOIT RUBBER CORP., Los Angeles 11, Calif." So this was before AMF bought W.W. Voit Rubber Corporation.
By the way, I got my first UDT Duck Feet as a birthday present when I was in high school, in exchange for a pair of Sportsways fins that I originally thought would be great be decide not to buy after I got them home and found out they would not bend. I took those Duck Feet into the U.S. Air Force, and they stayed with me throughout my USAF Pararescue career. I finally traded them for the Lightning Jet Fins which were issued to me in the 1970s, as by that time we were using boots with soles, and the Duck Feet would no longer fit over my boots. Before, my booties were of 1/4 inch neoprene that I made myself, first as a sock and later as a moccasin-style boot, but again with soft soles. It was only when the manufacturers started molding soles that these Giant UDT Duck Feet stopped fitting. When I left Pararescue, I needed to turn in a set of fins, and the Giant UDT were turned in so I could retain the Lightning Jet Fins that I currently still have. But those Giant UDT Fins saw me through the U.S. Navy School for Underwater Swimmers, and the subsequent years in Pararescue; they had parascuba jumps and helicopter deployments on them. I currently have two pairs, one of which I got from the Lane County Search and Rescue, and one from E-Bay, plus the two pairs of Full Foot Duck Feet.
John
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Fins
Oct 14, 2012 14:52:20 GMT -8
Post by SeaRat on Oct 14, 2012 14:52:20 GMT -8
Here are the photos of the original Full Foot Duck Feet verses the UDT Giant Duck Feet: And here is a close-up of these measurements: By the way, the dimensions of the two models of the Full Foot Duck Feet are identical. It is only the rib that is different. John
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