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Fins
Oct 20, 2012 12:25:12 GMT -8
Post by SeaRat on Oct 20, 2012 12:25:12 GMT -8
David, I think you are correct and the natural rubber Mares fin is a Concorde; I don't have it around anymore, and so had to go with what I saw on the one I have. The one I have is a Plana Concorde, and I choose the wrong word to define the older model. It is great to hear that these fins are still around. The only difference I noticed is that on the original Mares variety, there was a band about 2-3 cm wide of different rubber material that is more rigid going over the foot (again, this is from memory).
John
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Fins
Oct 20, 2012 21:35:05 GMT -8
Post by DavidRitchieWilson on Oct 20, 2012 21:35:05 GMT -8
John, here's an image of a detail of the the original Mares Concordes: and the whole fin: I note that the blade area close to the toe opening is a little different from the Turkish Concorde 2000s. I also recall seeing a pair of orange Mares Concordes in a German department store back in the 1970s. I was going to purchase them, but I worried about getting the long blades into my luggage and settled instead for a pair of Mares Sea Kings, which were very popular in continental Europe at the time. David
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Fins
Oct 21, 2012 13:57:30 GMT -8
Post by SeaRat on Oct 21, 2012 13:57:30 GMT -8
David,
Thank you for the photo. I have downloaded it, and outlined the area I believe has a different compound of rubber. You can actually see it in the reflection on your photo, but it is not obvious. It is obvious when you wear the fin, as this acts like a snug rubber band over the top of the finswimmer's or diver's foot.
John
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Fins
Oct 22, 2012 14:57:03 GMT -8
Post by SeaRat on Oct 22, 2012 14:57:03 GMT -8
Nem, Here's a photo of the repair I made on my USD Aqualung fins (their direct competitor of the Duck Feet). I broke this trying to put it on over a short bootie, which I really regret trying. You know, that "Oh S#$%" moment. John
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Fins
Oct 26, 2012 17:38:00 GMT -8
Post by SeaRat on Oct 26, 2012 17:38:00 GMT -8
David,
I found another photo of the fins that I took in the 1980s. It was a Concorde 80 set of fins. I also had some photos of me taken using them. I'll post those too. I haven't mentioned much about the Cressi fins, but they are also pretty nice. However, they could not compete with the Concorde 80.
John
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Fins
Oct 26, 2012 17:48:09 GMT -8
Post by SeaRat on Oct 26, 2012 17:48:09 GMT -8
When I was Finswimming Director for the Underwater Society of America I wanted to illustrate an article for their newsletter, Visibility[/B]. I recently found those photographs, while I was sorting through my years of accumulations after I retired. This is one of the photos, and I think my son, Brian took the photos with my Nikonos II underwater camera. Here, I'm in the middle of a high speed flip turn that is used in competitive finswimming. Usually today everyone uses a monofin, but I recently found out that there is now a separate category for racing with "bi-fins", at least in China (where the sport of finswimming is pretty popular). These Concorde 80 fins (made in 1980, I think; maybe David can comment on that) fit well and really pushed me when I was finswimming.
John
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Fins
Oct 26, 2012 17:57:54 GMT -8
Post by SeaRat on Oct 26, 2012 17:57:54 GMT -8
This photo illustrates the use of the finswimming snorkel, which not to many divers have ever seen or used. It is straight in front of the face, and is made not for visibility, but for swimming efficiency. It is the most streamlined way of making a snorkel, as it does not increase drag of the swimmer. When measuring a race to the 1/100 or greater (10.05 seconds, for instance) streamlining is critical. Goggles are more streamlined than a mask, and when using a snorkel and breathing it helps to have the nose clips as without them breathing can be unpleasant.
John
PS: I'm still wearing that same neckless, which was a wedding present from my wife's parents almost 36 years ago.
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Fins
Oct 27, 2012 10:15:41 GMT -8
Post by DavidRitchieWilson on Oct 27, 2012 10:15:41 GMT -8
These Concorde 80 fins (made in 1980, I think; maybe David can comment on that) fit well and really pushed me when I was finswimming. John Very interesting, John. I see the "80" in your "Concorde 80" fins in your photograph, below the word "Concorde" on the blade. I did a little Googling and came up with the following Mares product timeline at www.ilovepescasub.com/news-e-comunicati/2011/12/mares-pure-instinct/La Mares viene fondata nel 1949 da Ludovico Mares grazie alla sua grande passione per la pesca in apnea. Dalla storica sede di Rapallo negli anni sono usciti tutti i prodotti che hanno scritto la storia dell’azienda tra cui i fucili Bess (1951), Vico Jet (1964), Sten (1967), Mirage (1972), Super Sten 130 (1975), Cyrano (1993), Phantom (2007); Le maschere Ventosa (1970), Prima (1983), Star Liquid Skin (2008), Essence Liquid Skin (2009), X vu Liquid Skin (2010); Le pinne Concorde (1970), Plana Concorde (1980), Razor Carbon (2007); Il computer da apnea Nemo Apneist. Looks like the original Mares Concorde came out in 1970 with the "Plana Concorde" being launched in 1980, hence the name. But the "Plana" is what confuses me, associated as it is with plastics, not natural rubber. Here is an image of a pair of Plana Concordes for sale: They are clearly thermoplastic foot pocket/plastic blade fins. The mystery thickens because I was under the impression that Mares abandoned the manufacture of all natural rubber fins at some stage, sending its rubber-fin moulds to Turkey. The natural rubber Concorde 80s must have been Mares' swan song before changing the fin materials. David
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Fins
Oct 27, 2012 16:44:36 GMT -8
Post by SeaRat on Oct 27, 2012 16:44:36 GMT -8
David, I don't think that time line is correct. Here's a Google Translate translation of the Italian text you have above, for everyone's edification: (You can see why you should not use Google Translate for any but very simple, non-legally binding translations. I think the "rifles" are spearguns, and don't have the foggiest idea where they get "sleep apnea", except maybe for breath-hold diving...actually, and alternative translation from Google is "The computer free diving Nemo Apneist" which probably is better read "The free diving computer Nemo Apneist" .) The Concorde 80 fins that I had are from about 1980. I took those slides in September of 1982 (marked on the slide). I was writing for Visibility[/B] and Odyssey[/B] ("A Jurnal of the Central California Council of Diving Clubs", another Underwater Society of America publication) in the time period from the 1986-1989. By 1987, I was trying to get a monofin built (a whole different story, with a funny ending) and had switched to the Mares Plana Concorde. I don't remember what happened to my Concorde 80 fins, but I think they may have had a catastrophic failure of the foot pocket and needed to be replaced (perhays torn at the toe). I still have my Plana Concorde fins, and on the back under the foot pocket they have a circled "85" imprinted on the fin. I think that is the date of manufacture, or the date that this model came out. It is the same fins as the ones you have pictured from your internet search. I will put a photo up after I take it to show those markings. I'm pretty sure that the Plana Concorde (the plastic one) is from 1985 and the Concorde 80 from 1980. By the way, the Plana Concorde fin is pretty unique, in that there is a plastic insole insert into the foot pocket to make the fin's pocket more rigid, and also to provide some arch support. The ones I have are suffering; both have rips in the heel area, making it necessary to use fin keepers whenever I use them (I haven't in a number of years). I hope to put them into the water soon again, but I need to find my fin keepers to do it. John
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Fins
Oct 28, 2012 2:12:24 GMT -8
Post by DavidRitchieWilson on Oct 28, 2012 2:12:24 GMT -8
David, I don't think that time line is correct... (You can see why you should not use Google Translate for any but very simple, non-legally binding translations. John Totally agree with you about Google Translate, John. I know French, German and a little Russian, which is why I was able to decipher for myself the Italian, a Romance language like French. Online translators should only ever be used to get a rough idea of the gist of what foreign language texts say, and even then, they can get meanings badly wrong. Interesting period detail about the Mares fins. The following confirms that Plana fins date from "the early 1980s": Back in the Seventies, all divers wore heavy black fins. They were generically called Jet fins, although the name itself belonged to Scubapro. Every manufacturer copied Scubapro and made black fins. Then, out of the blue in the early Eighties, Mares bucked the trend. The company launched the Power Plana. Polymer-based materials replaced rubber compounds. www.divemagazine.co.uk/kit-listing/129-other-kit/951-mares-power-plana-finsI had somehow assumed that the changeover was in the late 1970s, but those numbers you quote indicate that Mares was still producing rubber fins at the beginning of the 1980s and that the company first launched plastic-bladed fins in the mid-1980s.
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Fins
Oct 28, 2012 7:36:11 GMT -8
Post by nemrod on Oct 28, 2012 7:36:11 GMT -8
I am not sure what to think of fin swimming. I think I will stick with good ole fashioned regular swimming. The Y staff already think I am weird as it is.
In those photos it looks like John is using his arms. I thought fin swimming was just fins since some fin swim races are done underwater, apnea? So, is it fin swimming or is it fin and arm swimming, like a crawl stroke but just with fancy fins instead of the little Speedo fins I sometimes use?
James
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Fins
Oct 28, 2012 17:47:32 GMT -8
Post by SeaRat on Oct 28, 2012 17:47:32 GMT -8
I am not sure what to think of fin swimming. I think I will stick with good ole fashioned regular swimming. The Y staff already think I am weird as it is. In those photos it looks like John is using his arms. I thought fin swimming was just fins since some fin swim races are done underwater, apnea? So, is it fin swimming or is it fin and arm swimming, like a crawl stroke but just with fancy fins instead of the little Speedo fins I sometimes use? James James, finswimming is actually both. In the distance open water events, a lot of the finswimmers wear "bi-fins", which are like the Mares Plana Concorde. When in that mode, many use the crawl stroke when surface swimming. Obviously, for underwater swimming hands are not used, as they slow the swimmer down. It is better to be very streamlined for the underwater swimming. By the way, underwater swimming apnea (breath-hold) is only done for 50 meters. All other underwater distances are done with scuba, and the tank being held in front of the swimmer. Take a look at the rules and the video; pdfownersmanual.info/user-guide/finswimming-cmas-rules-pdf.pdfWe tried very hard to get finswimming to be an Olympic sport. However, the U.S. Olympic Committee decided against it, and it never caught on for the Olypmics. But, the Olympic Committee was dumbfounded when they learned that in the 1980s, most of the monofins were hand-made by the swimmers themselves. In Eastern Europe, they used a Duck Feet type fin, cut them down and attached them to a custom-designed monofin blade. The blade was made of fiberglass from printed circuit boards from Eastern Europe. These were not high quality fiberglass, and so the swimmer cut out the design he wanted, then cut off each layer until he or she had the flexibility of the blade correct. This custom-tapered fiberglass was not possible in the "West" as the fiberglass was not laid up the same way, and individual layers could not be peeled off a finished fiberglass stock for their boards like it could in Eastern Europe. I tried to hand-make a monofin blade, but had to use a piece of metal to attach the Duck Feet foot pockets to it. This made it very stiff, and slippery. I just finished it in time for the World Corporate Games in San Francisco (if my memory is correct). I had only practiced with it once, and then had to try it in competition. Well, I got on the blocks for the racing dive, the gun went off, and I tried to make my dive. But my neoprene booties against the metal would not catch, and my feet came out of the foot pockets. Instead of a nice racing dive, I did a somersault off the blocks and landed just three feet or so from the wall on my back, with the monofin attached about at my knee caps. Such was my only attempt to compete in finswimming, which was really embarrassing for the Finswimming Director of the Underwater Society of America. Just after that, I chunked down about $150 for a DolFin Training Monofin (not as wide as the competitive monofins), which I still have and you see in the initial photo for this thread (top of the photo). It's in my garage right now. John
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Fins
Oct 28, 2012 19:30:06 GMT -8
Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2012 19:30:06 GMT -8
John Interesting that you would detail how swim fining is done......not knowing the name of this type of sport, I have been swim fining since June at the local gym pool, trying to just get back into shape. I started just swimming on my back with some short fins with split blades, I purchased at Academys Sporting Goods. Was doing 20 laps in a 50 yard pool in about 30 minutes on my back.
Switched to mask and snorkle for about a month. I was working just for my cardio and leg muscles but strained my left hip and thigh muscles so I slowed down.
Both methods I found it difficult to push the fins under as they floated. I think this is what caused my injury.
Got bored so I tried swimming under water holding my breath and worked up to 10 lengths for about a month, then got even more bored and tried to use my Power Plana's I've had the past 26 years.
Really pulled the muscles in my left hip and upset my left sciatic nerve...been down since..........3 weeks........
I was hoping to get back into reasonable shape for my wife and my trip to Peru this Christmas......was planning to do some diving........still hope I can as I am slowly healing.........
So..........any suggestions on how to approach this again without injuring my 63 year old self?
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Fins
Oct 29, 2012 8:32:17 GMT -8
Post by nikeajax on Oct 29, 2012 8:32:17 GMT -8
Mossback, um, have you had your lower back looked at, by a doctor: wondering if you have a ruptured disc... Sounds pretty close to what happens to me, although, I have what is called a "Pars fracture", with a complication known as "Spondylolisthesis", this is at L5&S1: really effed up! Sounds to me like you may be getting some "muscle guarding" this is when the muscle tightens to “splint” the area, to try to protect itself from further trauma.
Find some exercises to build your core, this isn't just your stomach, but that's part of it: you want to work on your gluteus medius, gluteus maximus and hip flexors too! Start out SLOWLY to rebuild those muscles to where you feel the area begin to fatigue ever so slightly then rest--don't try it like when you were in boot-camp!
BTW swimming for me anyway, will probably aggravate that condition until you get those muscles hold everything in place securly.
Anyway, just thought I'd try to help, as I live with constant pain...
Jaybird
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Fins
Oct 29, 2012 12:28:33 GMT -8
Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2012 12:28:33 GMT -8
Jaybird Thanks but I've been to a doctor and he did not think I had a spine issue,,,,,,,the muscle in my hip was swollen from "swimming like I was in boot camp"...my leg and hip cramped up and I did what I learned in boot camp, work thru it....wrong idea at my young age...keep forgetting I'm not in my twenty's.......anyway, the pain is in my hip and left leg, not the lower back.........
Swimming on ones back with floaty fins is not good, your back is arched, there is a noticeable effort to push the fins under water, etc.......
However, your exercise suggestions I will take up........
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