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Post by nemrod on Dec 8, 2004 9:53:20 GMT -8
Ok, I don't mean this thread to cause any heartburn, lol. Now that I have decided to dive vintage and am putting together a vintage rig, my old stuff and some new old stuff, it occurs to me there are several problems. Well, masks and fins! Yes, you can get them on ebay--sometimes they are not rotted---you can buy some from vintage scuba, the UDTs and oval masks but the thing is there were others fins and masks out there at that time. I always used the simple little oval masks but I remember oblong masks and different colors like yellow and blue etc. Fins, well, it looks like for vintage we get the UDT or Jet fin and that is it. To this day, I believe my Vikings were the most powerful, fastest and most comfortable fin I have ever owned. Perhaps my memory is tainted by time and fondness for a different era. By the 70's other divers on boats and in the club would laugh at my Vikings, Jet's were the big fin then and Rocket's during the 70's but I still dove my Vikings. I don't remember ever being down on power in currents or being laughed at when we got back on the boat--lol. We need the Vikings back, both versions rock! The shorter version had more acceleration and was faster, the long version was better at cruising and was probably better in current. Mine are long gone. Nemrod
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Post by Gomez' echo on Dec 8, 2004 12:26:25 GMT -8
When one decides to pursue the aspect of diving vintage, there are many ways to achieve the wanted goal. I used to do historical living (aka reinactments). We decided upon a time period and then a character of that historical time. One of the most rewarding aspects in this recreation was the research and knowledge of the time and obtainment of the necessary clothing, gear, etc. When I started diving in 1962, I purchased my dive gear based upon my budget and availability through my LDS. Now, I try to collect all the gear I dove with at that time. This is one of the aspects of vintage that is so interesting. Obviously Ebay is a major source, but this forum can also be helpful. A while ago I desired a USD weight belt buckle. Communication here gave me the leads to my goal. If you are indeed interested in pursuing the vintage dive sport, do your homework and find out what was available. A job worth doing is worth doing right. Don't put Firestone tires on a Conestoga wagon!!!
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Post by dogsbodydiving on Dec 8, 2004 12:59:34 GMT -8
Cant interest you in a pair of mares quatro avanti or what ever the name is then  Joking aside do you know who did the 1st split fin, they came back out as 'New' a couple of years ago, but we know they were out years ago but cant find the advert??? |
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Post by nemrod on Dec 8, 2004 23:59:17 GMT -8
I guess my concern is the supply of vintage gear is very limited. I mean the basic gear.
Yes, for the time being the main piece of gear needed, the double hose reg, is in good supply and with parts mostly available.
Vintage type guages with needles are somewhat more limited and not so easy to repair.
Single hose vintage regulators, I suppose the USD Calypsos and the MR12 series are pretty common and there are some parts available.
Wetsuits/drysuits etc, not so easy to find. A vintage style suit that does not have logos and bizzare colors all over it.
Snorkels, rather diffucult
Masks, some are available but hardly a representative sample of that era--new or used.
Fins, Duckfeet and Jets and that is about it.
Knife--no problems, plenty
Watches, no problem
Backpacks and harness---ok supply
Double manifolds and that sort, kinda rare.
Steel 38s, 50s and 72 and doubles--so so for now
The problem with masks and fins and snorkels is that they are consumable, easily lost and damaged and just don't stand the ravages of time like a chunk of chrome plated brass.
So my point is that while we have a decent supply of gear for now via ebay and places like Vintage Scuba the supply is still limited in variety and the supply of used consumable items may not last much longer. Not trying to upset anyone but just pointing out that new reproductions of vintage gear will become a necessity in all likelyhood or we will all be diving the modern sissy gear in neon pink and using --gag---Tusa regulators--gag---gag! Nemrod
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Post by DavidRitchieWilson on Dec 9, 2004 13:30:00 GMT -8
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Post by Linda on Dec 9, 2004 15:27:25 GMT -8
Please, no commercial links to sites that sell new items identical to ours.... Sorry.  But we pay for our server, etc. and can't afford to offer free advertising for our competitors. If you have links to new reproduction masks, fins, etc. that are in a style that we do not carry on our own site, feel free to post (in the spirit of keeping vintage diving alive).  |
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Post by DavidRitchieWilson on Dec 10, 2004 8:19:42 GMT -8
>Fins, Duckfeet and Jets and that is about it.<
Vintage fins in general and full-foot models in particular are a research interest of mine and I keep a close eye on ebay. My impression is that there's a much broader range of older fins coming up for auction than you suggest. Over recent months several pairs of Voit Vikings have been offered on ebay; my only regret is that many sellers of these fins won't countenance bids from non-US buyers (I'm UK based). Other brands of vintage fins I've noticed for sale include Churchill, Seamless, Cressi, Dacor and Nemrod. There are plenty of vintage European fins too on the German version of ebay.
Some vintage fins can be bought new. Technisub Alas and Dacor Cordas are, or were recently, still in production. Oceanways Professionals, reproductions of blue Cressi Rondines, are also still around. There were warnings in the early 1980s that full-foot rubber fins would vanish from the scene. However, I recently found over 60 models of such fins on the Web, so that dire prediction didn't materialise. Indeed, these fins have experienced something of a renaissance as competitive swimmers recognise their potential as training aids.
David
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Post by nemrod on Dec 10, 2004 12:23:44 GMT -8
David, I am kinda a fin guy myself, lol. I don't know why that is. I also remember being told full foot fins were going out and only "Jet" type fins are good for diving as early as the early 70's. I think they were wrong on both accounts. I am getting a bit older now and not so fit but in my prime--lol--no one wearing Jet fins ever prooved any points to me. I will take my Vikings--if I could --thankyou.
Yes, I watch ebay, bid on a pair also but was at work so could not keep uping my bid. Went way over 100 dollars. There is a air now for 250 dollars BUY IT NOW!!!!!I used to pay, like 4.99 or was it 9.99 at Montgomery Wards, K-Mart etc. I realize that if a new manufacture Viking were available it would run closer to 100 dollars but then those full foot Apollo rubber split fins (which I sorta like) are well over a 100 also.
You know, I don't get the open heel stuff--never did. Yes, I understand if you are in water cold enough to warrant a dry suit--of course--but--for warm to temperate water I prefer barefoot or a fin sock or a thin soleless neoprene boot. My feet being cold has not really been an issue. Jets---bless them---just flat kill my arches and I just don't find them particularly more powerful than the Viking. I also like the modern Plana style fin if they would tone them down and offer a full foot rubber fin. I don't think the Cordas stack up to the Vikings for scuba duty in heavy current but for snorkling they are fine. The Europeons seem to like the really long free diving style of fin---a fin can be to long in my opinion--a balance for everything I suppose. Not an expert--just my thoughts.
Oh, I do like the Duckfeet type semi open heels. I also think if the Churchill fins was offered with the "missing" part in place they would be an equal to the Viking--maybe a little more length too while their at it. Nemrod
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Post by dogsbodydiving on Dec 10, 2004 14:08:02 GMT -8
Hi I am a UK drysuit diver that's the only sort of diving we know here really I also deal with the general diving public here 6 days a week  I agree with what you're saying. Countless times people come in and say they want longer, wider, supersonic go faster fins(with stripes). We allways retort with " You could strap an 8"x4" sheet of ply wood to your feet but if you cant move it, you aint going no where. Not good PR but there you go. I'ts even better when they come back after a week for ankle weights (more money) because their feet are too light. The thing is when you show them rubber fins (heavier) it's Oh No! old fashioned. In the past 8-10 months they've come back in fashion with the techie lads the 'NEW' rubber fins. BLESS EM. About 4 months ago went on a training weekend had qualified divers with us aswell. On making a visit to the local pump station one member came out proudly holding his latest purchase £72.00 worth of fins. He came up to the van & I inquired about his purchase which any one would, then followed it up with we do them for £48.00 he was not a happy bunny. Made my day. Can you tell me were jet fins invented for speed....or was it for commercial divers who had to stand and tread water without moving when welding or such?  Fins seem to go through holes'slits,side slits and any other kind of super duper transformation. Like most things what goes around comes around. |
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Post by nemrod on Dec 10, 2004 14:27:32 GMT -8
Kim, Jet fins are authentic vintage believe it or not (since the mid 1960s). BUT, I still am not a Jet fan. I really don't know why they have vents in them, I think because like tailfins on cars they look cool. I really doubt it could be proven they boost performance. Until an instrumented anatomical diver test unit prooves them more efficient and faster --either or---I will hold to the thought the vents are for style. Nonetheless, they are a good fin for some types of diving and have a loyal following. If they came in a full foot version I might get past the vents--lol. Nemrod
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Post by dogsbodydiving on Dec 10, 2004 14:54:27 GMT -8
Dont get me wrong jet fins are vintage I know that no probs, and we have allways tried to sell them. I dont use them only because I put a pair of fins on and stuck with em dont give a s**t as long as I get from A-B .As you prob know I'm not a vintage diver. But mentally vintage a good thing as far as I'm concerned .. My dad has always said they were made for commercial use sounds sensible. Just wondered if anyone else had heard that .
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Post by seakrakken on Dec 10, 2004 19:06:21 GMT -8
I remember in '78 when my dive instructor Phillip Godbold in El Paso, Tx. recommended ScubaPro Jetfins. His take on them is that they were great for touring about on the bottom because, the vents allowed some reduction in effort due to water bypassing through the slots. From the hip Jetfins are cream puffs to use. He was always preaching "Let your gear do the work". Commercial, Public Safety and Military Divers like them because if you need real thrust for speed or are doing heavy lifting or you are in a stout current they can provide thrust like few other fins I've ever had. If you've got the leg muscle for it you can leave a rooster tail! I hear that Force fins are the replacement for jet fins in those circles now. US Divers/Aqualung has the Rocket Fin which is close and is what I use right now. |
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Post by nemrod on Dec 10, 2004 21:25:40 GMT -8
"I hear that Force fins are the replacement for jet fins in those circles now. US Divers/Aqualung has the Rocket Fin which is close and is what I use right now."
On a certain other (and excellent board) site the above statement could probably cause WWIII. I have never seen such hate directed at a fin as against the Force Fins. I have two pair, also have Rockets and also have Jets. Still think the Viking is a better fin but that is just me maybe. The reason I am responding is that I like certain Force Fins actually. They are different and in some respects everyone may not appreciate them. Lot's of divers do not take them serious. On the right person with a good kick the Force Fins can provide startling speed when you consider how pliable and to me at least comfortable they are. Just don't go out and spend big bucks on them until you have some more imput on them. The FF Pro in the tan delta material is my favorite among the Force Fins. They are not--vintage so are probably beyond the scope of this board. Would 1972 Rockets be vintage? I got two pairs and I do not like them at all. They kill me more than the Jets. Nemrod
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Post by DavidRitchieWilson on Dec 10, 2004 22:20:53 GMT -8
>If they came in a full foot version I might get past the vents<
When Beuchat patented then manufactured Jet Fins in the 1960s, the basic model was indeed a full-foot version. Beuchat had a leaflet explaining the "hydrodynamic principles" behind the new design.
During that decade, full-foot models were the fins of choice to be worn with or without wetsuits. They cost much more than open-heel versions. I remember purchasing my first pair of Typhoon Cressis when I joined my university sub-aqua club. They seemed a real luxury after graduating from open-heel Britmarine Clipper and Penguin fins. When I snorkelled in the Mediterranean during the 1970s, full-foot Cressi Rondine or Mares Sea King fins remained the norm.
I still find it bizarre that full-foot fins are now cheaper than open-heel fins, because you get less fin for your money. Modern plastic full-foot fins have never appealed to me. I could never understand why they didn't come with neoprene or natural rubber foot pockets when thermoplastic pockets required plastic "formers" to stay in shape during storage. Seemed like a step backwards to me! When I visited a London dive store a couple of years ago, I saw lots of full-foot plastic fins with warped foot pockets in the bargain tray.
However, I don't think we always have to be purists when it comes to defining "vintage". It's not an "all or nothing" matter. Most people hang on to some artefacts from the past while buying into technological progress. When personal computers first appeared in the early 1980s, I remember one TV IT guru explaining how he still prized, and used, his fountain pen. The irony is that people who go for everything that's new will usually end up out of fashion in a few months' time, or broke, or both. I regard my simple rubber full-foot fins as I do other cherished possessions from the past, as "classics" that will never age.
David
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Joking aside do you know who did the 1st split fin, they came back out as 'New' a couple of years ago, but we know they were out years ago but cant find the advert???
But we pay for our server, etc. and can't afford to offer free advertising for our competitors.
I agree with what you're saying. Countless times people come in and say they want longer, wider, supersonic go faster fins(with stripes). We allways retort with " You could strap an 8"x4" sheet of ply wood to your feet but if you cant move it, you aint going no where. Not good PR but there you go. I'ts even better when they come back after a week for ankle weights (more money) because their feet are too light. The thing is when you show them rubber fins (heavier) it's Oh No! old fashioned.
Fins seem to go through holes'slits,side slits and any other kind of super duper transformation. Like most things what goes around comes around.