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Post by vance on Dec 6, 2016 10:12:39 GMT -8
Interesting that the Navy passed them both with almost 2x the acceptable exhalation limit for both. Also interesting that their worst exhale performance was at recreational depths (30-70 feet). The 300 was twice as bad and, at the same time, twice as good as regulations at 30-70ft....
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Post by vance on Dec 6, 2016 10:24:27 GMT -8
I guess this performance thing caused Hw some problems. They might have had to sacrifice recreational performance in order to pass Navy standards?
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Post by SeaRat on Dec 6, 2016 10:37:04 GMT -8
Interesting that the Navy passed them both with almost 2x the acceptable exhalation limit for both. Also interesting that their worst exhale performance was at recreational depths (30-70 feet). The 300 was twice as bad and, at the same time, twice as good as regulations at 30-70ft.... Vance, If you go to the actual study, you will see that the Navy did not pass either of the two Healthways regulators. Neither the Scubair II nor the Scubair 300 were placed on the Navy accepted list. These tests cost Healthways a bunch, in my opinion. John |
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Post by nikeajax on Dec 6, 2016 11:14:50 GMT -8
There is something very hinky about this graph/chart: the second stages should have identical exhalation. I might understand the inhalation being different, as the '300 is unbalanced, and the Scubair-II is balanced: it's my understanding that the second stages were totally the same--vexing! The only other regulator I've seen with a bigger exhaust than these particular models is the US Divers from the same period, and they are only slightly larger: you can park a truck in these exhaust tees, they are massive!
JB
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Post by vance on Dec 6, 2016 11:18:36 GMT -8
Oh. I misunderstood then. You said under the Exhalation Resistance heading:
"Now, the study states that these two regulators meet the U.S. Navy Standard, MIL-R-24168A Limits for exhalation resistance."
But they didn't. Nor the inhalation standard given their 220psig performance?
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Post by SeaRat on Dec 6, 2016 11:38:13 GMT -8
Oh. I misunderstood then. You said under the Exhalation Resistance heading: "Now, the study states that these two regulators meet the U.S. Navy Standard, MIL-R-24168A Limits for exhalation resistance." But they didn't. Nor the inhalation standard given their 220psig performance? That is correct. These two regulators did not meet either the inhalation or the exhalation resistance requirements. The 200 psig results were really bad. But the 1400 psig resistance was also either right on the line, or slightly above it for the Scubair II. The Scubair 300 was fine, well below; again, I think that regulator had an updated, more flexible diaphragm. I have put new diaphragms on my very old Scuba Star with a tilt valve second stage, and gotten very good inhalation response on this regulator. The diaphragm makes a difference. Now, about the questions Jaybird brings up on the exhalation difference between the two regulators. These differences could be because of quality control differences in the two neoprene mushroom exhaust valves. Both the Scubair II and Scubair 300 seem to have the same exhaust "T," but there could be some differences in clearances between the exhaust and the far side of the "T" which would produce some differences. The study says that Healthways gave the U.S. Navy these regulators to test. But usually the Navy would go out and procure these regulators independently, as if they were being purchased locally by the Navy personnel. We don't have any information other than what is said. One possibility is that Healthways deliberately gave the Navy slightly different second stages to determine independently which was working best. That would be a cheap way to get an evaluation, but with the risk that the regulator would not pass. John |
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Post by nikeajax on Dec 6, 2016 11:43:07 GMT -8
Hmmmm? HW did some more number recycling: The "B" and the Scubair-II both had the same model number, 1677! Something else popped out at me while looking at some catalogs: the Scubair-300 had its name change to the Scuba Sonic! By 1975, they weren't called '300s any more: did they actually use a '300 and NOT a Sonic? If this is the case, then that would defiantly explain the fluctuation of performances  The Scubair-II is a high performance reg, the '300 isn't... JB |
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Post by nikeajax on Dec 6, 2016 11:56:01 GMT -8
Mark, thank you for suggesting this thread being created! The VSF is THE database for all things Healthways, well, correct information anyway...
JB
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Post by nikeajax on Dec 6, 2016 13:17:00 GMT -8
Here's an image taken from the HW 1972 catalog, special thanks to John68!  I touched up the image, as it was a photocopy:  JB |
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Post by tomcatpc on Dec 6, 2016 17:47:31 GMT -8
You are welcome Jay!!! This might have been an offshoot of "The 'Lexia" talking?
Now we need a "Healthways Chingadera/Odds and Sods" topic started. A topic for all the little accesories, books, etc.
Mark
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Post by nikeajax on Dec 10, 2016 16:45:34 GMT -8
Phil, I was just playing with the second stage that Don sent back to me for that '300: the hole is .75" or 3/4"! It should be really easy to find a plug for them, I'm going to look for a chrome one; that should look extra swell. For some reason the 9/16-plugs, second gen., are a female dog to find, unless you but like fifty of them. The rubber plugs have always looked rather cheap to me, so in case ya bugger yer's up... I also put a blue silicone Scubapro main diaphragm in it: the 1969-70 used a smaller diaphragm, and should make it very responsive  BTW the ScubaPro second stage valve body was exactly the same as the Healthways, they just trimmed the shoulders on it and later made the volcano orifice larger! More later... JB |
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Post by nikeajax on Dec 11, 2016 14:37:09 GMT -8
It appears I was wrong about the mushroom valves for 1969; I need to go back and rectify my earlier post. I measured the exhaust opening on this second stage and it uses a 23mm:  DD, when you get a moment, could you please measure the exhaust on your Airflo? Could it be the units with the rubber tee had a larger mushroom?!?!?!? Most perplexing JB |
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Post by SeaRat on Dec 14, 2016 16:31:06 GMT -8
I just received my Healthways original Scubair regulator. I put it on a tank, and it does not leak! I don't know whether it is the first or second generation of this original diaphragm regulator, as I haven't pulled the first stage apart yet. But attached to the neck cord is a gem, a paper from Healthways which came with the regulator when new, titled "IMPORTANT! AUTOMATIC RESERVE INSTRUCTIONS." This paper dates from at the latest 1961, making it 55 to 56 years old. I have taken some photos, but felt this was worth its own post.  This paper confirms that each Healthways Scubair regulator initially shipped with the "K" Restrictor in place, and with a "J" restrictor in the box with the regulator. If the diver was planning to use a J-valve on his tank, then the "K" restrictor needed to be removed from the regulator and the "J" restrictor put in its place. John |
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Post by nikeajax on Dec 14, 2016 17:14:52 GMT -8
Oh you... you totally stink: you know that right? WOW--very cool  I'm a bit envious  I wish there was more info about these regs!!!!! I think, the order is, blue painted, chrome with blue labels, and chrome with red labels. These regs were available from 1960-61, and are kinda rare; DD has a blue painted version: but I still like him though  JB EDIT: First generation Scubair JB's 1665 SS# 6533 Chrome with red label Johns 1665 SS# 7568 Chrome with blue-gray label DD's 1665 SS# 10301 painted with red label First generation Scuba Star Spotted on eBay 1664 SS# 1285 painted with light blue label JB's 1664 SS# 2502 chrome with light blue label JB's 1664 SS# 14799 painted with dark blue label |
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Post by nikeajax on Dec 14, 2016 19:31:20 GMT -8
Okay, the image in the the 1960 catalog was a prototype:  Look at the exhaust! JB |
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The Scubair-II is a high performance reg, the '300 isn't...
I touched up the image, as it was a photocopy:
BTW the ScubaPro second stage valve body was exactly the same as the Healthways, they just trimmed the shoulders on it and later made the volcano orifice larger!
I'm a bit envious 
