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Post by cnotthoff on Feb 17, 2018 11:55:27 GMT -8
As I geared up for another dive under a crab boat to remove line wrapped around the prop this morning, a newer diver stopped by to chat. I keep things simple by using a back pack to hold my tank. She wondered, "where is your BC?" I told her that they can get in the way when working under a boat. She walked away shaking her head at this old guy muttering, " I hope that goes ok."
It's gone ok for the last 40 years. It went ok today. Another fisherman got to go out and pull pots.
Good Dives, Charlie
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Post by SeaRat on Feb 17, 2018 12:20:13 GMT -8
Charlie, I know what you mean. I was in the pool a week ago with my scuba, and no BC. The instructor asked me about that, and I hold him that in the pool, I really did not need it. But when I do, I have one that I patented and use it. He kinda took that in stride. I found, along with the smoke jumping photos, one that was taken in Alexander Springs State Park, in Florida in 1970. I was in my twin jump tanks. You can see written on the side of the jump tanks, "PARARESCUE" and "55 ARRS," which was our squadron at McCoy Air Force Base, Orlando, Florida. If you look hard, you can also see the manifold guard for when we had a parachute on over these tanks. I'm using my own USD Mistral regulator for this photo. Note, no BC. John
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Post by nikeajax on Feb 17, 2018 12:34:54 GMT -8
Cheese'n crackers Charlie; don'ch know how irresponsible that is? Think of the children, the puppies, the kittens... all suffering because of your selfishness! Why I once seen a guy who... JB
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Post by vance on Feb 17, 2018 16:12:36 GMT -8
As I geared up for another dive under a crab boat to remove line wrapped around the prop this morning, a newer diver stopped by to chat. I keep things simple by using a back pack to hold my tank. She wondered, "where is your BC?" I told her that they can get in the way when working under a boat. She walked away shaking her head at this old guy muttering, " I hope that goes ok." It's gone ok for the last 40 years. It went ok today. Another fisherman got to go out and pull pots. Good Dives, Charlie Were you at the Trinidad pier? I used to do that all the time. I'd get a dory full of crab for a couple minutes work! Well, maybe 15 crabs...
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Post by vance on Feb 17, 2018 16:17:21 GMT -8
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Post by nikeajax on Feb 17, 2018 17:33:32 GMT -8
That's Mr. Genocide to you pally! Charlie, I think it's the phenomena of someone wanting you to know, that they know that you know about scuba... JB
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Post by tomcatpc on Feb 17, 2018 18:56:08 GMT -8
I have not dived with a modern BC in at least a year, bear in mind I have been diving less than three/four years... See what you people have done to me!!! LOL!!!
If I am diving with a larger sized group and there is a possiblity of going deeper than 40 feet, I wear a mid-70's Sportsways horse collar with oral-only inflation. 90% of the time I never use it.
Quite a bit of the time I dive without a BC, I just have gotten used to it and like it so much better. I trust using a J-Valve only now as well. Granted this is in a shallow quarry in Ohio, but that is my experience only so far.
I've been called outright crazy for diving without a BC. I don't care...Fight the Power!!! Mark
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2018 19:02:23 GMT -8
Cnotthoff I can relate to that.......shortly after I found VDH and VSS (around 2002-2003) and had my Royal Aquamaster rebuilt (after spending 20 years on the closet shelf due to no parts), I and a friend dove at Possum Kingdom lake, northwest of Ft. Worth. While gearing up on the dock some kid (probably in his mid twenty's ) asked me in a manner I took as authoritarian, (dive instructor?): "Do you know how to use that regulator?"......being my old normal crusty Marine self I replied: "I hope so, I learned on this type way before your mama ever wiped yellow goo off your backside.".....(being nice here, I did use different words.) A look of shock spread across his face, I guess no one ever challenged him on what he thought he knew and no one else. Walked away among the snickers of other divers. I got a number of questions from them after he was gone.
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Post by cnotthoff on Feb 17, 2018 19:40:27 GMT -8
Yea Mossback, I had a similar reply. I told her that I didn't use a BC when I started diving. Fenzy would have been the only one around, and I didn't know about it.
Yep Phil, It was Trinidad Pier. Skipper was worried about pulling the pot into his running gear, so he stayed on his mooring. I rowed one of the skiffs out to him.
Good Dives, Charlie
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Post by SeaRat on Feb 17, 2018 20:46:27 GMT -8
That's Mr. Genocide to you pally! Charlie, I think it's the phenomena of someone wanting you to know, that they know that you know about scuba... JB Thanks, Jaybird, I have a daughter-in-law who was one of the children refugees from Cambodia, and knows first hand about Pol Pot. She lost her father, a doctor, to that dictator. Her mother took her and her two-year old sister through Cambodia to Thailand, where they spent two years in a refugee camp before coming to the USA and Oregon. Now, back to the topic. I have been having a discussion on Facebook, with a group called "Scuba Accidents and Risk Management Techniques for Divers," about BCDs. I maintained that with dry suits, having a BCD is redundant, as the dry suit is itself compensated for depth/buoyancy changes. And, I used this photo of me in an Aquala dry suit as an example. Here, I'm diving my Aquala dry suit in Clear Lake in the 1970s. Bruce Higgins took the photo. I'm wearing the dry suit, with an oral and power inflator, a weight belt, and a life vest. Some of the divers were saying that they needed a BCD because they were using these heavy, new steel high capacity tanks, which are about 8 pounds negative when full. That was their excuse for using a BCD with a dry suit. John
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2018 20:56:56 GMT -8
John, I understood these new hicap tanks were still negative when nearly empty as well. Simple solution would be to use less weights......but maybe that is too simple for today's new divers.
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Post by SeaRat on Feb 17, 2018 22:59:18 GMT -8
John, I understood these new hicap tanks were still negative when nearly empty as well. Simple solution would be to use less weights......but maybe that is too simple for today's new divers. From our discussions on Facebook, the problem isn't just the negative weight, but that with those fills, apparently to 4000 psig, there is an 8 pound swing in buoyancy. Because of this swing, I called the tank itself a buoyancy device, and that these divers needed to pay attention to three buoyancy devices, their tank's buoyancy, the dry suit, and their BCD. That makes for complicated diving. The reply was that their dry suit automatically vents when it is left-shoulder up, and it becomes second nature. But, in an emergency, when things go haywire, second nature goes out the window. I won't dive those high-capacity tanks. John
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Post by duckbill on Feb 18, 2018 0:42:00 GMT -8
Yea Mossback, I had a similar reply. I told her that I didn't use a BC when I started diving. It might be fun just to reply, "What is a BC?"
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Post by crabbyjim on Feb 18, 2018 7:43:44 GMT -8
John, I understood these new hicap tanks were still negative when nearly empty as well. Simple solution would be to use less weights......but maybe that is too simple for today's new divers. From our discussions on Facebook, the problem isn't just the negative weight, but that with those fills, apparently to 4000 psig, there is an 8 pound swing in buoyancy. Because of this swing, I called the tank itself a buoyancy device, and that these divers needed to pay attention to three buoyancy devices, their tank's buoyancy, the dry suit, and their BCD. That makes for complicated diving. The reply was that their dry suit automatically vents when it is left-shoulder up, and it becomes second nature. But, in an emergency, when things go haywire, second nature goes out the window. I won't dive those high-capacity tanks. John John, you have hit the nail on the head, as usual, regarding the high capacity tanks. I have two, 80 cf, 3440 tanks that are 8 lbs negative full and 2 lbs negative empty. After struggling with the buoyancy characteristics of these tanks, I now use them to top off my other tanks. As to the dry suit as primary buoyancy control, that is how it was taught 20 years ago and is still a good technique. Trying to regulate buoyancy with 2 devices is twice as complicated as using the suit itself. Having said that, When diving with an integrated bc/backpack the bc becomes a redundant safety device for self rescue. Speaking of self rescue, in the text accompanying your Clear Lake picture, you mention wearing a life vest. That's a redundant safety feature and I'm sure that's why you wore it. When I learned diving in 1970 my zippered, U.S. Divers vest with an oral inflator and 16 g co2 cartridge was a safety device for a properly weighted diver. I was also taught that the weight belt wasn't worth your life and to ditch it in an emergency. We made our own weights because we were safety conscious and cheap. The person who spoke to Charlie was probably someone who learned to dive long after he first dove. With modern bcd's, it is easier for an instructor to add lead than to get someone properly weighted for the intended dive profile. Do they even teach that anymore? Lastly, none of this applies to "technical divers". I dive "vintage style" whether I'm using a drysuit and bcd or wetsuit, weight belt, double hose regulator and horsecollar.
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Post by cnotthoff on Feb 18, 2018 10:51:28 GMT -8
Just to be clear, I wear a modern BC during recreational and training dives. I've been diving with friends who dive backplates with wings. I'm liking that setup and am thinking of going that way.
I wear a BC with my drysuit. I only adjust buoyancy with the drysuit during the dive. The BC serves its secondary purpose of organizing accessories. I've considered that the BC would come in handy in the event of a serious seal failure.
When working on a boat, buoyancy change is not an issue, since I don't go deeper than 5 feet. Most other jobs involve following lines that I can use to get back to the surface.
Jim, we don't teach adjusting your weights for deeper dives. The important thing on a deep dive (even beyond recreational diving depths) is to be able to maintain depth at safety or required decompression stops.
Good Dives, Charlie
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