The future of the diving industry

[Ron hearn]

Hi

This is a littler off topic, but I've been noticing allot of scuba shops going out of business in the the US and Canada. How are the shops holding out in your neighbourhoods. My buddy lives down in the Florida keys and he mentioned to me that almost 30% of the dives shops down there have closed up and the only ones surviving are the larger commercial stores "no names mentioned" with the exception of charger services. Has this sport become just to expensive for the economy just wondering how all of you feel about it.

Ron

[Stan]

Hi Ron,

There are three dive shops in the area (Reno, NV). One of them should go out of business because of less than honest sales practices. The sport is healthy here with OW, AOW, specialty classes and tech. diving going on almost every weekend, year round.

Stan

[nemrod]

Diving should never have become the mass marketed travel oriented/resort vacation hobby that it became. I use the word hobby because diving as taught and practiced by the evil PadI and most modern neon/plastic garbed divers is a hooby and not a sport. We are also on a downward spiral in outdoor sports of all sorts since the health crazed 60/80s. Swimming and water sports in particular have virtually dissappeared. I watched some people trying to swim at the Y, overweight by a bunch, garbbed in pantaloons, the young 20 somethings attempted his best dog paddle. The drag of the blossoming pantaloons was more akin to trying to swim while dragging a parachute. Exhausted after one length he dragged himself from the pool. This will probably his only attempt at fitness via swimming. I don't think he will take up diving, I don't think his pantaloons will fit inside a wet suit anyways.
Nemrod

[Ron Hearn]

LOL! very true Nemrod, I see that scenario every day at my local gym, but I don't blame the kids the entire North American life style in the US and Canada has gone to the Schlitz. I blame the parents who can't be bothered to get off the couch and play with there children but seem to think that buying a wide screen TV is more important. Now on the other hand I beleave the price of scuba equipment has gone to high to make it an affordable sport for the family.

Ron

[pearldiver]

I hear you....A regulator here, a cheaply made one is $350.00. Not including a pressure guage or anything else. The PSI guage and a compass is $295.00. I'm not sure what the difference is from my Farallon one bought for $29.00 a long time ago. The good thing is, an Aluminum 80 tank is still $129.00. I sure don't understand it. The dive shop still wants me to buy new gear. I don't happen to have an extra grand laying around for a regulator and pressure guage. My DA still works fine.

[diverdown1955]

First best reason to dive is an innate love of the water and an insatiable curiosity. I was one of those fat assed little kids and about the only thing that turned me on was water....what was on the bottom...how deep is it? All questions that I usually got the answers to! I was spearing fish underwater at the age of nine and at ten years (1950) knew more about the aqua-lung than the average adult. Dive shops in general create their own demise in many markets. They forgot customer service as did most of the retailers in the early 70's. Then PADI, and Skin Diver magazine, wanted all of us to travel the world and enjoy the underwater world. They forgot about the Hardcore diver who enjoyed the hell out of a weekend dive at a local lake, quarry, river or mud hole. Those were the very folks that the early dive shops were supported by. I and many of my friends felt somewhat disenfranchised when the glitz and bang shops opened up. Unless we signed up for a class or booked a trip, they made you feel like they were really put out to fill your tanks. When Jack the Frogman closed in MPLS I saw the writing on the wall. Their attitude forced me to buy a compressor and a suitable boat. Self reliance was being born at every corner. The best support a diver has is a good scuba club. In this modern age a good forum serves much the same purpose but the shoulder to shoulder learning is the best. Before Padi came along, myself and my diving buddies had chalked up; deep diving 130', we taught ourselves too use dry suits (that's all we had)! We dove in caves, and survived, using more than a little common sense. We dove wrecks in lake Michigan, we dove under 36" ice at night yet! We trained ourselves and those who had a passion too dive. Today's shops pander too the "Gee I'd like to try that divers". They stick'em with a $300.00 course to basically teach them not to hold your breath coming up or you'll die a horrible death. I got that out of a $3.00 book by E.R.Cross. It has served me well for 50 years.
Then they hang the teckie crap all over them so they can barely walk to the waters edge. A few months later you see the advertisement in the classifieds SCUBA gear used 5 times......They did not have the passion to dive only the need to try something different. And, it's allot harder than video games or watching pro sports on the wide screen TV. Dive shops in my area run the gamut, the majority hanging on by a shoe string. Some are consolidating like banks..stand back or you'll get hit by the changing signs! Yet other open a state of the art shop...One even started to give good service. I hope he can keep it up. One thing that has always bugged me is the lack of pool time to practice new skills, test new gear, sharpen old skills. The best thing a shop could do is open their pools for a night once a month or arrange too use a pool in their area on a set schedule. I bet they would increase equipment sales and peak old interests and perhaps just maybe attract some of the folks who jammed the scuba gear in the hall closet!
Ron, your a shop owner, one of the more enlightened ones. I have not been to your shop but you have helped me a couple of time by phone. You get a GOLD STAR for that as that's more than I get out of my local shops. There are good shops out there, when you find one, make the owner your friend. Help him and his shop succeed. You will benefit, as will he. WIN WIN ALL ROUND!

Sorry, but my soap box just caved in!

diverdown1955
Jerry Moseman

[Captain]

Damm Jerry, I thought I was the only person like me. Well said. You wouldn't believe how closely our paths have been.

[Seahuntjerry]

Someone told me The Kemp's Cows like Jerry Moseman too!!!!!!!!

[Ron Hearn]

DiverDown1955

That was an excellent explanation of your thoughts and views of the diving industry thanks.

Ron

[ralphl]

Wow, this oughta really get things to heat up around here...this same thread used to get things really hot on the old Aquanaut board.

Not being overly shy, I'll jump in also.

Like Tom and Jerry M., I started way, way back, in the beginning of Sea Hunt, 1958, when you really didn't need a "C-card" for equipment or air. I learned by reading every thing available, plus my father was ex-Marine DI with an ex-Navy frogman buddy. I would not wish that training on anyone!!! But I DID learn to dive and be extremely self sufficient in the water.

In those days you could be equipment for a lot less money, but put things into perspective...a brand new Cadillac was what, $5,000? You could buy a house for $20,000 (a nice one). Dollar for dollar, equipment today is probably comparable in price.

Service at dive shops is not! Then you were not asked to sign up for a trip, class, new equipment every time you walked in the door. When you wanted air, you got air. If you owned a compressor, you got air. But we also did not take the care with the air that modern shops normally take. If you didn't have a fresh filter for the compressor, you would use a feminine product stuffed in the filter chamber. Worked, sorta.

Then the '70s hit, the bad old days. There were a lot of injuries and deaths. The industry was faced with a choice, clean up its act or have government regulation. The industry chose to clean up its act. Certification became the norm, then a requirement to buy "live support" equipment, including air. PADI mass marketed. NAUI was for the hard core military types. But the sport thrived and grew. Is it better for it all? Be honest now...ease of diving, light easy gear, lots of exposure of the masses. There is a lot of good in there. But also some bad. The hard core, self sufficient diver is pretty much frowned upon.

I gave in and got "certified" and within a very short time had an Instructor's card, then all the way to Master Instructor. Taught almost every weekend, three nights a week. It was still in the hobby class, though. My wife pointed out that the highest pay month I had teaching was still less than a quarter of a week's pay from my day job. Put it into perspective...teaching diving for something like $10/hour. And the dive shop was demanding I buy all new equipment at least once a year. Required to be using the latest gear, and ONLY the gear sold by the shop. Instructors got their choice of classes to teach according to a scoring system...the basis was the dollar sales for the instructor's students. In other words, the main job of the instructor was marketing and being a shill for the shop.

I finally got sick of it and quit teaching four years ago. Every once in a while I miss the classes, love to teach and periodically teach graduate courses in advanced nuclear reactor theory. Teaching is a passion. Being a shill and marketer is NOT.

So, where has the diving industry gone? It has done some good things. It has also done some really bad things. It has lost sight of the thrill and fun of diving and focused on the cash return. I still love diving, and the return to the "vintage" gear has rekindled much of that love. It's great to hear some of the experiences of similar old farts on this board.

My thoughts.

Ralph

[SeaRat]

We had a similar discussion on the Instruction site here:

vintagescuba.proboards2.com/index.cgi?board=instruction&action=display&n=1&thread=1147&page=1

In it, I wrote:

The other area I have noted is the increase in dive travel, and "diving destinations." I do not travel much for my diving. The last time I was in warm water was 1986 in Hawaii. My diving since has been mostly in the water environment of Oregon and the Pacific Northwest. I note with sadness the decline of Skin Diver Magazine, and it's eventual printed demise (it's still on the web though). It declined as it became more and more dependent upon dive travel, and less and less on diving adventures that any diver could experience around home.

I watched as diving became the realm of the wealthy. New equipment was priced so that it became unreachable to the majority of our population. Now, if someone wants to take up the sport (especially in the Pacific Northwest) can now expect to spend $3-5K on equipment, and and about half that on instruction.

In contrast, my first experiences were with a single 38 ft3 tank, K-valve and a Healthways Scuba regulator (the first version). I got a wet suit the next season. My equipment was paid for by seasonal berry and bean picking in Oregon's Willamette Valley near Salem. It took me until the next year to save up enough to buy a wet suit, and until then I simply got cold. I learned scuba from reading The Silent World, probably three times after watching the movie of the same name in about 1958.

My first instructional experience was after we formed the Salem Junior Aqua Club, and got an L.A. County Instructor to give us a class in 1963 (that's right, I was diving for about four years before taking my first class). We tagged along with the Salem Aqua Club on their dives to the Oregon Coast and Puget Sound/Hood Canal. But all of us were very good in the water. Most of us had swim team experience. We were comfortable in the water, and had been snorkeling for years before getting into scuba. I was snorkeling in about 1956, and remember watching Sea Hunt after swim team practice after school. I went on to greater experiences thereafter.

But as dive travel has increased, the dynamics changed. Divers were no longer interested in local areas as much, and more money was coming from the travel industry. Skin Diver Magazine promoted the travel industry, and diving became increasingly a rich guy's activity. Travel courses were introduced, first as introductions to diving in warm water, and then as more of a norm for the travel industry. I've read some real hair-raising tales about the travel industry now and Japanese tourists. But I think some of the dilution of diving instruction has to do with the travel courses.

I see a resurgence now of interest in local diving. Maybe it really never went away. I was rather isolated for about twenty years raising my family, doing my job, and solo diving when I had the opportunity. I am seeing club activity now is better, especially now that I'm in a city.

John

[pearldiver]

I like the different viewpoints folks. Neat. I'll tell you a story, speaking of Skin Diver Magazine. About 1976 or so, there was an article regarding a dive spot in Iowa at a Lake George. It was written as a crystal clear inland lake, fish life galore and a great spot to scuba dive in. THere was also supposed to be 'facilities' there. So about six of us gathered up our gear and took off. It took about 5 hours to get there driving. When we arrived, the 'lake' was desolate, and it was more like the size of a pond. After driving this long, we decided to go diving anyway, because the magazine said there was plenty of fish life. A very friendly park ranger met us on our arrival. He saw we were scuba divers and was very pleased to see us. He offered us an 18 foot boat to dive out of. If anyone knows about clam diving in the Mississippi River, it was a boat like that. Flat bottom, about 8 foot wide. A very nice boat to dive out of indeed. We were very pleased to get this boat and have all this attention to help us. The ranger even helped load our tanks in the boat. When we checked the visibility out off shore, it seemed ok. You could see about three feet, which is pretty good in our minds. We hunt for old bottles and junk, so it was fine for what we were going to do. It was a cloudless and windless day, and about 80 degrees outside. Six of us hopped in this boat and drove out about 100 yards into the flat calm water. We lowered the anchor and tried to look down in the water at the bright yellow line. It vanished at about 6 feet. We weren't too sure about this pond anymore, but decided we had come this far, we would dive anyway. We even checked the Skin Diver magazine article to be certain we were in the right area. The article we were reading didn't match the description of what we were looking at. Our gear on, it was decided I would go down the anchor line first. So I proceeded to lower myself overboard and hike down this bright yellow anchor line. At about 8 feet deep, the yellow anchor line disappeared in front of my hands. So did my hands. I didn't know what was going on and snagged my flashlight. By that time, the next diver was shimmying down the anchor line and I felt his flippers resting on my shoulders pushing me down deeper. I turned on my light and didn't see anything, but I started to smell sh** through my mask. I couldn't believe it. I thought my batteries were dead so I put the light end directly against my mask to see if it worked. It was pitch black. The next diver started shimmying down the anchor line and the flippers on my shoulders pressed down harder pushing me deeper. I started laughing, and heard the diver above me start to laugh. The sh** was getting to be almost nauseous smelling it through the mask. For a bright sunny day, where I was stationed happened to be pitch black. I took my guages and held them against my mask and saw nothing. By this time, I could hear more than myself laughing hysterically. I was literally in over my head in sh**, or 'in deep sh**' . (And you wonder where these phrases come from.) The weight on my shoulders from flippers left, but the laughing continued. We dragged our sorry selves into the boat and laughed for what seemed like an hour. There was sh** on our gear and we didn't dare touch anything or take our suits off. Well, after carrying on for a few minutes, the hot sun began its work. The smell began to gag us, and the flies started landing on us and the gear in the boat. Literally hundreds of flies swarmed down at once. This caused a new outburst of laughter. There were flies all over our suits, gear, boat, everything. We headed to shore and when we arrived, we immediatly threw our tanks on and headed into the water to clean this sh** off. The visibiliyt was better. About three feet. The fish life was galore alright. Every single fish in the whole pond was laying lifeless on the bottom. Thousands upon thousands of fingerlings in different forms of decomposition in sh*** mud. There was nothing green or living here. We left early that day, and our 'facilities' consisted of a hose to rinse our gear in. We should have brought clorox bleach with, but per Skin Diver Magazine, hey.....we didn't need it. So a long story short, don't beleive everything you read.

[cstmwrks]

Wow, I have done some poopy dives, but never in poop. Doing search and recovery in that viscus layer that is niether the bottom nor is it open water. AaaaaH put that in a travel mag will yeah! Lets see the kiddies flock to that. This all reminded me of the worst case of shallow water narcosis I ever saw. 30ft down, 30 degree water, 3 feet of vis and my buddy was trying to cut a line to a tangled crab trap. turns out he was cutting his own SPG hose.

[JES]

pearldiver,

You have the best stories of real-life diving experiences and I really enjoy reading your posts.

Thank you for sharing your humorous exploits!