Creed
Pro Diver
Posts: 189
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Post by Creed on Oct 22, 2005 10:47:47 GMT -8
I am putting together a vintage style setup. I do want an spg, however. Is it better to get an old Dacor valve with the hp port, or a banjo fitting?
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Post by SeaRat on Oct 22, 2005 15:27:22 GMT -8
How about picking up that Sherwood valve with duel posts? cgi.ebay.com/SHERWOOD-DUAL-VALVE-CROSSOVER-MANIFOLD-Scuba-Diving_W0QQitemZ7190342062That is another way of getting the SPG. If you are using a single tank, then I would go with the Dacor valve. My reasoning is that it is much easier to put the SPG onto the valve, and not have to piggyback the banjo fitting. I have one regulator (my Aqualung Overpressure Breathing) with a banjo fitting, but I find that I rarely use it in that I have doubles with the second post. I run a Sherwood Blizzard on that post. While I could run an SPG, this last year I have not. My diving is shallow, in about 23 feet of water max, so I sometimes go without the SPG in favor of not having it to bother with. I will be writing about that on a new thread soon. But the Sherwood manifold is the way to go, I think, with a small set of doubles. John |
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Post by nemrod on Oct 22, 2005 15:44:18 GMT -8
The reason I recommend owning a banjo at least until Luis finishes inventing his new HP seat/adapter is that if you travel you can use the banjo with most rental tanks. Other than that I ditto SeaRat. I am building two multi tank sets over the winter--smaller than my Double 50s, one will be based on my second Sherwood dual manifold vlave, another on something else. Twin 40s might be neat. I know y'all don't like aluminum cylinders but I kinda do. And I have to say that Chuck's banjos are very nice and worth their weight in gold or latnium or something, maybe Ol'Hawk.
James
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Post by Ron Hearn on Oct 23, 2005 9:31:58 GMT -8
Hi Not knocking Banjo's but don't they provide another secondary faiure point. I would think that a threaded spg directly into the valve is much more secure and safe. This in mind, I never used a banjo myself so I could be wrong am I. Ron  |
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Post by william bonney on Oct 23, 2005 11:51:59 GMT -8
There's another way, one that I haven't used but thought about. I recently ran across in Diversupply.com a quick disconnect for hp hoses/spg/computer etc. etc.
Seems to me with an adapter screwed into the valve, the the quickdisconnect female end screwed into the adapter and the male end on the hose you'd have a efficent method for a spg and not having the spg hanging/banging around the tank during transport to your favorite dive site.
Just a thought.............
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Post by SeaRat on Oct 23, 2005 12:31:05 GMT -8
Ron,
The banjo itself is simply adding another O-ring to the potential for failure. If the O-ring is in good shape, there should be no problem. While it is another failure point, the potential is more when the air is turned on than when diving.
John
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Post by scubanut on Oct 23, 2005 12:32:29 GMT -8
Creed, I was in the same situation as you are. I bought one of Chucks banjo fitting for my spg and it is the best thing I have purchased. I have not had any problems with it at all, so i would recommend one
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Post by luis on Oct 23, 2005 13:06:28 GMT -8
Is the port on the Dacor valve always under pressure? As in the port is before the valve and you can only install the gauge with an empty tank.
I wouldn’t like having my gauge and HP hose always under pressure.
I like the idea of the quick disconnect, but can that one be disconnected under pressure?
The only other issue is the thread size. Any modern HP device is probably 7/16” thread.
I have been very happy with the banjo fitting.
I did change all my tank valves to what I call vintage friendly valves (Sherwood K valves). They have a small but rugged tall head. It makes it easier to use the banjo.
There is a guy on eBay that has a bunch of used valves for cheep. I bought some of the Sherwood K valves for about $12 each. I did have to rebuild them and change burst disk.
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Post by nemrod on Oct 23, 2005 13:24:00 GMT -8
The Sherwood and Dacor valves seem to work best to me also, J or K.
As to the banjo being a failure point, I keep hearing that and also the same thing about various adapters and all I can say is that while yes it is another failure point of all the things I have had fail it has never been an adapter, three way adapter, swivel LP adapter, HP 90 adapter or the banjo. My banjos now need a new O ring. I have dived it quite a bit and the O-ring is becoming frayed. It still seals perfectly. If this were to fail it would mostly likely fail when the air first is turned on unless you strike something in the water I guess. It really just is not a problem. Really, for open water, so what if it fails?? Diving in a wreck or a cave (which I am not allowed to do according to my wife) I would not be using a banjo, I would have at minimm, dual tanks on a dual outlet manifold with dual regulators and in a for real cave dive it would be isolated, for wreck diving a pony configuration of some sort might suffice. I think this failure thing is way overblown for most of the diving we do--a evil PadI invention/fabrication. (PadI belongs to the evil world wide "THEY")
Another thing, while I was as excited by the 200 foot dive at Wazee as anyone and would have done it myself if I could take the cold I would have done it with my Double 50s and a backup regulator. Why, well for one thing we tend to "group solo" and the other is when was the last time most of us have actually practiced budddy breathing a double hose especially in a dark, cold and deep dive? LOL, so far my biggest failure point has been the various --new and old---single hose regulators I have been bringing along for back up--go figure that.
James
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Post by SeaRat on Oct 23, 2005 15:39:32 GMT -8
I dove my UDS-1 yesterday, and it is one of the few scuba where the SPG is always pressurized. I have had no problem with that, but my SPG is an older one, and did develop a leak (just a few bubbles at the connection to the guage, which the LDS fixed easily). I think the Dacor valves depressurize, but the drawing is Diving For Fun by Joe Strykowski is unclean about that. Someone else will have to comment who owns one. Concerning the 200 foot dive, I tend to be conservative, and will stay above 120 feet for sport diving. I have been to 210 feet, but this was during the Warm Mineral Springs Underwater Archeological Project in 1975. We used double 80s, and even though we were only at depth about 15 minutes (surface to bottom to first stop--cave diving BT), we completed the decompression according to the 20 minute schedule, stopping at 30 feet for 4 minutes, 20 feet for 10 minutes, 10 feet for 23 minutes and at the surface, we stayed in chest deep water for another 5 minutes. Oh, and the 20 and 10 foot stops were on pure oxygen. There were regulators set up at the various stops from large storage bottles on the surfarce. I am very distrustful of tech divers who carry their own bottles and decompress. Too much can go wrong. Here's what my dive log states for that dive: I had been diving on this project since February 14, 1975 and had never been to the bottom where Larry Murphy and Sonny Cockrell, and his archeologists, had been removing artifacts. I was a safety diver for the project. On my last evening there, in a night dive, Larry took me to the bottom. I remember seeing the mound at the bottom, and we went down that mound to the deepest area of the spring that was accessable, which is why it was a bit deeper than the planned depth. I signaled to Larry that I was getting narced, and we began our ascent. We decompressed by moonlight, and watching the moon rise through the surface was a different experience. I was glad to have finally reached the bottom of Warm Mineral Spring, after one to two dives a day supporting them, and setting up the compass quadrant system. On the dive, I used a MR12 first stage with a Sportsways second stage as my primary, and I think the MR12 second stage as the octopus (I liked the Sportsways better). I did a lot of their photography, using a Subsea 150 strobe with my Nikonos II, and their photographer was surprised that I was getting better images than he was with a Nikonos IV (I was using a 28mm lens, and manual photography, while he was using a 35mm lens and auto photography). Anyway, I mention this because I kept a few photos (they kept the negatives, which I should never have allowed). Warm Mineral Springs it is, as my regulator had a coating of black minerals on it from the dives. Total solids in the water were 19,433 parts per million (ppm), with a total hardness from calcium carbonates of 3,785 ppm. Here's one of one of the research divers (yes, several were women) taking underwater video in about 65 feet of water in Warm Mineral Springs:  Photo Copyright John C. Ratliff, 2005 You can see the equipment, twin 80s with a single first stage and octopus second stage, and a cave diving light (custom built--it's the housing you see on her belt); most used the Poisiden Cyclone regulator, and we had a couple of malfunctions (uncontrolled free flows) during the time I was there. One happened to a US Senator who dove the springs to see the project; it was okay though, as he was a former US Navy Seal (Bob Kerry???), and simply swam over to another diver and used his octopus for the rest of the dive. Sonny Cockrell also had a malfunction, which I recorded on February 21, 1975: Nemrod, I also would have decided not to dive to 200 feet, but not because of the vintage gear. I have used single hose regs on twin 72s in the service for some rather deep diving, and that was when we dove a single hose regulator with only one hose, and only one second stage. My double hose regs are every bit as reliable as those were, and we did not have SPGs either. A good depth guage (an absolute must, see above) plus a good watch (another must) and a set of dive tables would be very adequate to 120 feet. Beyond that, in my opinion, a sport diver needs more support, and a DDC would not hurt at all. In Florida, at Warm Mineral Springs, we did not have a chamber, but had set up helicopter rescue contingencies in case of an emergency. John |
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Post by william bonney on Oct 23, 2005 16:30:21 GMT -8
I've tried twice in my life to do a bounce dive to 210, just to say I've been there, both times surface support equipment failed, not my dive gear, dives called off. Deepest I've been has been 140' at Scripps Canyon in Calif., looking for the sand falls that roll into the great abyss.....didn't see it......not much else there, bottom sand, a dead jelly fish. No black coral, no ship wreck, nothing.......Used state of the art equip. Sport Divers two, maywest, wet suit and weights and my Pinnocio(sp) mask and jet fins, nothing failed.....might add I still own that sportdiver 2 and it still funtions pretty good.
been to 100 in Cozumel, that was interesting, but deep diving isn't as interesting anymore, there's more interesting stuff in shallower water......that said, I would like to make a dive to Scapa Flow on the old German fleet....max depth I hear is 135'.
Anyway, double hosers will do the depth as well or better than singles.........always thought doublehose regs, with the larger diaghram breathed better at depth.
Didn't slow the folks down in the 60's who dove on the Andrea Doria......240'+.....I've got a couple of photos of them from a old Dive mag...........doing it with twin hoses.
Neat........................
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Post by nemrod on Oct 23, 2005 16:40:28 GMT -8
"Nemrod, I also would have decided not to dive to 200 feet, but not because of the vintage gear."
Sorry I did not mean to imply I would not have done the 200' dive vintage--of course I would have done it vintage with my Royal backed up by either my Calypso or MR12. I did not do the dive simply because I am a wuss when it comes to cold--cold water, cold air, cold wind--anything cold -----typical of Louisiana boys, we are good fighters as the Brits found out, just make sure the fight is in the cold and we quit and go home. Just teasing.
SeaRat, you have such depth of experience (no pun intended) and such detailed logs you really need to write some type of book or chronical or something. Sometimes I think you may be the real Mike Nelson! If not he don't hold any cards on you.
James
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Post by duckbill on Oct 23, 2005 23:05:21 GMT -8
Seems to me with an adapter screwed into the valve, the the quickdisconnect female end screwed into the adapter and the male end on the hose you'd have a efficent method for a spg and not having the spg hanging/banging around the tank during transport to your favorite dive site. Just a thought............. EXCELLENT IDEA! Thankyou. |
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Post by duckbill on Oct 23, 2005 23:11:35 GMT -8
Is the port on the Dacor valve always under pressure? No. The port is between the valve proper and the orifice. It is only pressurized when the valve is turned on AND something is attached to the yoke. The only other issue is the thread size. Any modern HP device is probably 7/16” thread. Dan, here at Vintage SCUBA, sells a 7/16"-3/8" adapter for just such a purpose. |
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Post by JES on Oct 24, 2005 20:23:00 GMT -8
I prefer to use a banjo fitting. I like the fact that it allows me to switch my regulators between tanks without having to install a Dacor valve on every tank or not be able to use my SPG. I do own a Dacor valve and it works fine. William, that is a neat idea about the quick disconnect.  |
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